The Fully Flex Workplace with Krista Pell

“We trust first.”

-Krista Pell

How has your organization handled the whole RTO question?  Are people on board with the arrangement in place, whether that’s 3 days in office, or only 1 - or something else entirely?     In today’s episode, my guest gives us a peek into an organization that considers itself “fully flex.”

My guest is Krista Pell. Krista is the Chief People, Culture & Engagement Officer at AIMCo. With over  25 years of People, Culture and corporate leadership experience, Krista is  recognized as a strategic culture and change agent with an exuberant  approach to develop, implement, and lead people and corporate strategies.  

Krista is passionate about developing an organization that is focused on client  service, represents a diverse approach to innovation and excellence and has  a strong culture of inclusion and trust. She has led global teams in companies  across the finance and energy industries with headquarters in Canada, the Cayman Islands and Australia. 

Prior to joining AIMCo Krista was Vice-President of Human Resources at  Cenovus Energy, responsible for leading the global Human Resources team  that delivered the integration of Cenovus and Husky Energy. Krista is a  member of the Board of Directors for Hospice Calgary as well as serves as a  member of the Dean’s Advisory Council for Wilfrid Laurier University. Deeply  committed to investing in people, she is a coach and mentor for young  professionals in the Human Resources practice.

In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you’ll discover:

• An example of a fully flexible approach to where and when people work
• The role of trust and psychological safety in any RTO initiative
• Thoughts on how to overcome the fear of abuse of a flexible policy 

Links

• Krista Pell on Linkedin: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/krista-pell-8b68931a 

Looking for a Team Coach or dynamic Keynote Speaker/Facilitator?

Book a call with me to explore how we might partner (serious inquiries only please):

https://calendly.com/lisa-mitchell-greenapple/clarity-call

Share the Show

Like what you’ve heard? Pretty please with an apple on top - kindly leave me a 5* review so that others can find the show and elevate their impact too! Here are the simple instructions:

• Launch Apple's Podcast app on your iPhone or iPad.
• Tap the Search icon (on the botton) and search for the show name.
• Tap the show's cover art.
• On the podcast page, tap the Reviews tab.
• Tap "Write a Review" at the bottom of this page.

Follow me

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-mitchell-acc-ctdp-7437636/

Instagram: @greenappleconsulting

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/greenappleconsulting.ca

Transcript

LM Ep 121

 [00:00:00] How has your organization handled the whole RTO question? Are people on board with the arrangement in place, whether that's three days in the office, or only one or something else entirely? In today's episode, my guest gives [00:01:00] us a peek into an organization that considers itself fully flex. My guest is Krista Pell.

Krista is Chief People Officer of Culture and Engagement at Aimco, and she has over 25 years experience. She's led global teams in companies across the finance and energy industries with headquarters in Canada, the Cayman Islands in Australia. Prior to joining Aimco Krista was Vice President of HR at cvis Energy, responsible for leading the global human resources team that delivered the integration of VE and Husky Energy.

In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you'll discover an example of a fully flexible approach to where and when people work. The role of trust and psychological safety in any RTO initiative. Thoughts on how to overcome the fear of abuse of a flexible policy. I really hope you enjoy our conversation.

Thanks for listening. 

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Hello and welcome [00:02:00] back to Talent Management Tru. I'm your host, Elisa Mitchell, and today I'm joined by Krista Pell. Krista is the Chief People Culture and Engagement Officer at Aimco out of Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Welcome to the show, Krista. I.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Thanks Lisa. It's nice to be here.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: My pleasure. So you, you're originally from Guelph, Ontario, which is where I I did my ba I love that city.

So you're kind of covering different ends of, of the country here. So tell us a little bit about what you do at Aimco and a little bit about your career as well.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Yeah, no, thank you. And it is, I I did grow up in Guelph, Ontario. I didn't go to school in Guelph. I know you did. I'm a lure girl. So just a couple of minutes down the road. So yeah, I am at Aimco which is. Is Alberta Investment Management Corporation. We are the investment managers for what I like to say, the future of Alberta or Albertan's money.

So all of, we have 17 diverse clients, but if I was to put them into kind of two large buckets we are the investment managers for the [00:03:00] government of Alberta. So namely some significant items like the Heritage Trust. Workers' compensation, so, you know, growing those, you know, large trusts and pools of money.

And then the other group, the other kind of broad group that we have is any of the Alberta based pension funds. So namely for like Alberta teachers, retirement fund, local authorities, pension plan, so those that have potential ties back to government or public service. And so we are the investment managers.

We have about 158. Billion dollars in assets which is significant. And of course that number, when you're talking billions, it doesn't tweak on a daily basis. It's not, it's not like, you know, dollars and cents of our bank. It's significant. and we are part of what is sometimes called the Maple eight.

So sometimes people say, what is the Maple eight, if you've ever heard of that? It is the eight largest Canadian pension funds. So often if I am talking to folks based in Ontario they will know Ontario Teachers Pension plan or you know, [00:04:00] public service pension plan. So you can get an idea of that.

So we're, we are the same but different. A little bit different, but you know, kind of sim similar concept.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Yeah, it's so interesting 'cause I'm a member of Ontario teachers 'cause I was a teacher for a couple years. Yeah, it's interesting. Okay. Yeah. So, so at a. End. So really a massive portfolio, really important work. I think you've got about 700 employees altogether at the company. Tell us about your, your team or teams.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Yeah, so I have a, a broader portfolio. So I look after people in culture as a starting point. So I, and I would say like if you were to say what is traditional human resources we certainly have traditional human resources in that group. We also have the talent team, change management, and then equally employed.

Diversity, equity and inclusion and employee experience. So that, that kind of broadly makes up our people and culture team. I also look after culture or communications and corporate identity. So namely our interactions with our stakeholders and sponsorships [00:05:00] and communities. And then I have workplace travel and security, namely kind of what it sounds like.

Workplace for us is a little bit more broad than just. If we have offices or where we have offices, and we can talk about that in the, you know, kind of in the next hour. But you know, really those components. And then the last one is enterprise project management or what people might call the EPMO.

So that is my broad portfolio of people culture and engagement.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Yeah, I, I, I love it. And it, and it is, it is diverse in, in some ways, but it's also very much interconnected. And, and you and I, when we first got acquainted, had had discussed that. So actually I do wanna go back to the. The workplace safety and, and what you were alluding to just a moment ago. 'cause you were saying it's, it's quite broad.

It's not just about people in one office.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Mm-Hmm. Well, I, I think it really just speaks to one of the core attributes of our organization, which is what we call Wow. Or work our way. And you could even say it's like, work your way with a work our way. But really what that [00:06:00] means is, and it's so, it's so topical now, but it's something that, was just starting to be put in place before the pandemic, which is what people often ask as like hybrid work, flex work, you know, basically, where do you work? We really think of it as a, it's a work our way, so. one of the mandates we have around talent is we wanna hire the best people and we wanna allow them to have the best opportunity to be their best self.

So if you just kind of think, where can I do my best work? And Lisa, I don't know about you, but you know, sometimes that's seven in the morning. Sometimes that's seven at night. Sometimes that's Sunday afternoon. Some it can be all over the place based on competing demands. You know, family just. Personal, it also could just be preference.

Like, hey, I just work better in this time zone. It also can be, you know, in the summers I work better from the cottage and I like to get up at five in the morning and go do my thing. And so what we really looked at is how do we really give our employees the autonomy to make decisions over where they do their best work?

'cause [00:07:00] we've hired them to do that while still ensuring that we are true to our values, which, and one of those values is collaboration. So, you know. It might mean. So I, I'm in the Calgary office today and I can honestly tell you I could not. I actually, I do know where two of my team members are sitting 'cause they're in the office.

I saw them, but prior to that I couldn't have told you where people are sitting outside of the individuals who are assigned to like, who work as office managers and they are in office. We, that's inclusive of the executive team. We really respect the people are going to work where they need, where they need to be to be successful.

That might be in person, it might be that I'm like, Hey team, you know, what, is everybody okay to get together in person next week? Because I just think we're gonna be more productive and it's gonna be more collaborative. And, and that's really how we work. So, we are not hybrid. We are not flex. If people really push me on it, I usually say, okay, we're full flex because we are, we're just fully flexible to where people are.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Yes. So it's funny because just this morning I was [00:08:00] enjoying my coffee at the kitchen table and was, was finally digging into the business section of the Toronto Star Firm, I think Saturday. And we still get. The physical paper delivered on the weekends 'cause it's kind of a nice weekend work thing to do.

And it had a couple of articles around just this, this recent survey that was done. Now, I can't think what the company was that did, it was a recognition platform, not achievers, but something else, but where they'd, they'd surveyed 5,000 employees, I think mostly in, in the us as is often the case.

And they were looking at what do. Employees really, really want when it comes to, you know, is it in person at home or a blend. And what they found was that. Really it's, it's none of those things. It's flexibility, period. They want choice. They wanna be able to choose for themselves what's working for them and what do they need.

So whether that's, you know, I do best when I'm only two days you know, the week at work, the rest of the time. I really much [00:09:00] prefer to be home. I'm more productive. I, you know, I have more balance, whatever it is, or some other permutation. But it was this idea that when people are mandated that it's.

Tuesday and Thursday and everybody's in and the rest of the time you're home and there's no flexibility around that. That actually is something that people, they feel resistance towards, you know, in some, to some degree. Right. Which could open them up accepting that call from a recruiter or whatever it is.

So, so what are your thoughts on that?

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: You know it, it's. So I would say that I am someone who embraces the full flex because I travel a fair amount for work. I have a teenage daughter that I drive to school. I have, you know, I'm kind of like, I work all the time and then I need to be able to flex my life all the time to accommodate that.

I can absolutely see the value that organizations place in saying we're all gonna come in office on these specific days. Like of course you can see that. But then I, I look at it and say, what if that was the [00:10:00] one day that my daughter has, I'm gonna make something up, like doesn't go to school till 11.

Now, like it really can I do it? Absolutely. And I've done it for years. We know that, right? We've all done these things for years. But if you were to say like, is that really giving Krista the best place to do her best work? No. It, it's counter, you know, it's counterproductive. And then are we inadvertently putting her in a spot that she has to then, you know, kind of get up from the office, drive and go pick up her daughter, whatever.

I'm just using these as examples, but, so for me, it's like I, I know the value. And I, that organization's place in that. And I actually liken it back to what is your employee value proposition and who are you as an employer? And so, you know, when I speak with other, you know, people, leaders or just executives and we talk about what works for them, I'm always like, you should do what works for you.

You absolutely should own who you are as an organization, own the value that you place on that and allow that. To be your mantra. For us this [00:11:00] works because that is akin to like, we wanna build an organization that is so rooted in trust in psychological safety, that if I want to say to my boss which I did yesterday morning Hey, I really need to go do this for a couple of hours, I need to step away.

That I actually don't even have to tell 'em. Like that, it's there. So, and I appreciate that there are certain roles and certain levels that, that's a little bit more challenging. Equally, if we look at our student, our emerging talent programs, we do, we do, that program has more of an in-person because feel to it, we, I.

We are very, very deliberate in ensuring that those groups do have more in-person time. Why? Because we know at that stage and that level, and thats stage in development and career, it is more valuable to learn how do I enter, you know, how am I interpersonal? How do I show up to work meetings? What is the na, like, how do I learn?

Right? Whereas somebody who might be later in career has done that for a long time and understands how to [00:12:00] engage and is more comfortable engaging. So, again, our, our end state is we want to deliver the best for our clients, therefore we're going to hire the best people. And the best people need to be put into a situation where they can be their best selves.

And what we've learned is, to your point, is. There's all forms. Flexibility no longer means you can arrive to the office between eight and nine. not flexibility. That's

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Flexibility within an hour.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: yeah. So I mean, I, I'm teasing, but that's often what I hear is like, well, we're flexible. If you have a dentist appointment, you can go to that.

Okay, well that's totally flexible. I'm gonna, the dentist, you know. So I think if you, you know, you have to, as, as an employer, you have to own what is your brand and what works best for your organization that needs to be aligned to your values and that needs to be aligned to your broader invo value proposition.

And so for us, that's what works best. And I, it's interesting, I definitely, if I'm in peer groups or, or any of our leaders are, we get. We get a good amount of, I wouldn't say challenge, but sometimes [00:13:00] challenge, but more like, oh, you're really, really, have you seen productivity? Have you seen engagement? We've seen it all.

Retention calculate, you know, our retention, our turnover is dropped. Our retention is, is through the roof. Our engagement is through the roof. Our team performance, our productivity. We're not seeing that now, you know, this is over a multi-year period. Not a flash in, in the pan. And we'll keep doing that, but that deliberate and intentional collaboration.

And what does that mean? We are well planned and prepared. It is not, you know, there's certainly organic meetups, but there's also very planful meetups,

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Well, I, you know, it is really interesting to hear 'cause I think so many organizations that I talk to are, are really struggling with this piece. Like what is our. Flexible what can that look like? How do we meet employees where they're at? And, and there's a lot of, you know, contrasting opinions and often some, some CEOs that are just like, no, you're five days a week and I don't care.

And, you know, this kind of thing. And they're, and I think they're paying a price. What, you know, when [00:14:00] this went in place. So it sounds like it predates Covid and the pandemic. So it's, it's culturally embedded now, do. Actually, I don't know if you, you haven't been there that long. You've been there just over a year, but do you know, like, were there any kinds of hiccups along the way, helping leaders adapt to this style?

That would be really interesting to understand for, for, for people listening who are thinking, oh, could we do that here?

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: I think, I think there's a couple. Yeah. And just to clarify, so our CEO, Evan Al had put this in place at CMHC, Canadian Mansion Housing Corporation, and then he moved into Aimco during the pandemic. So I. The pandemic is a, an easy catalyst, right, to have success in this. But there's some other, some other really significant changes in the organization that are probably important to highlight.

One of them is, at the time, pre pandemic, we really only had the Edmonton office. We had Toronto, which was a smaller version, smaller footprint than it is now in a London, [00:15:00] but smaller footprint, in Luxembourg, but Luxembourg was even smaller. Since the pandemic, we've expanded the size of the Toronto office.

We've opened a Calgary office. We've opened a New York and Singapore office. We expanded our London footprint. And so when you look at that and you think about the dynamic of it, and if you've ever worked in like a multinational, global, multi-office, that is usually the big difference for me in easier to accept.

Because if I am, if you're, and you know, you're Ontario right now and I'm in Calgary, and if we were working together, we would have to get on a screen in order to have a effective conversation. And actually, so. When you have those multi-office multinationals, people are quite accustomed to that. I've gotta jump on a screen and you know what, if you're at home today, Lisa, and I'm in the office, it doesn't really matter 'cause we're gonna collaborate for like through this and we do still need to have intentional collaboration.

We still probably, if we're working on a project, wanna have a project kickoff in person or whatever. That's however the organization thinks they're gonna do that. If you shift that into, [00:16:00] okay, we need to stage all hands or meetings that are accommodating to everybody and it really doesn't matter where they are.

We just need to accommodate and make sure everybody's taken care of. That makes it a lot easier. Right? Like the two, a mindset of I don't have to see you to believe we are collaborating and doing work. Organizations that don't have that to start it. It's a little, it, I would say a little, it's a lot more challenging.

'cause they've never considered how they would be planful for that because they just walk in and they see the people. Right. So there's like, so, so there's starting point there. I think the second piece that I usually start to talk about is. What it's gonna do for you culturally from a positive, people are always very con.

Okay? So it's really positive for the employees, great, but it's such a detriment to culture. And normally what I start with is when you have, you know, you and I are the exact same size boxes on our screen right now, and if I go 3, 6, 9, 12, whatever, we're all the same size. And when you're trying to instill a culture [00:17:00] that is of safety and trust, and Lisa is no more senior or junior than I am, we all have the same voice when we're the same size on the screen.

If you think pre pandemic and I know I've been in them, I'm sure we've all been in them. So you know, you are sitting either, either one or the other. You are the person in the board meeting or boardroom, I'm sorry, during a meeting and there's like 10 of you in there and you're kinda having your own conversation and there's the two poor souls that are on the screen and you're trying to include them, but they're like on the screen and they can't really participate in the, we've eliminated that gone because now you've.

In that inherently you're excluding people, right? It's not the same experience to be sitting on a screen when everybody else is in the room. So for, for me, I look at it as like that's a really big cultural win to be able to say we're all the same size, with the same size, voice and input when we're faces on a screen.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't have in-person collaboration, it just means that if we know it's gonna be a virtual meeting, and that was actually one of the, the [00:18:00] biggest takeaways. I was at a different organization during the pandemic. But in that, that was actually one of the biggest positives that came out right away is that our, and I'll put in quotations, remote or field-based leaders, were like, we finally feel the same.

We finally have a voice.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: I have a voice. I'm at the table. I can see that I'm at.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: You are not all sitting around a table looking at each other and we're like over here on the left, like, no, like we're all the same. And

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: At the same time, I, I work with some organizations, you know, when I'm delivering you know, leadership training, that kind of thing. And, and you know, there's a real reticence in some organizations of people to use their cameras. There's a ca, there's a camera fatigue. So is that something that's alive and well at Amco?

Or, or, or people pretty comfortable with cameras?

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Everybody. Yeah, it's not something I had to kind of manage or deal with when I came. Everybody was cameras on and if your camera's off, it's more just people are like, Hey, sorry, I'm in the car driving someone. I'll get, I'll be cameras on when I'm back [00:19:00] in front. I had a team member yesterday just be like, I'm cameras off right now.

Like, I'm not feeling looking best. I didn't put makeup on, like, they were just like, not my day. Nobody really flinches. But if you were to say 99% of the time people are cameras on, a hundred percent is how I would describe that is

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: huge because I would say that a lot of cultures really struggle with that. A lot, you know.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: I, and again, I think that's like We're dealing with, you know, one I'll say dealing sounds terrible. We're we're having one group that's like, you know, in our teams that are, you know, kinda more technology based and like, Hey, I don't want to always be cameras on. And so the baby steps that we're taking with them is you'll always start a meeting cameras on and 5, 10, 15 minutes because that's how you engage.

You see people, Hey, I'm in a spot. I can listen. I'm looking in your virtual eyes at least. And then if. 15 minutes into the meeting, we're getting into technical detail where you're really gonna be looking at spreadsheets or you know, a second [00:20:00] screen and you wanna go cameras off, no problem. But you need to engage.

You need to start with cameras on.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: And how do you prepare new leaders? I mean, there's existing leaders there that are used to this, but how do you prepare new leaders to be able to manage when people you know, there's the fear that people might abuse. The flexibility I.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: You know, I, to be honest, we don't spend a lot of time on it, and, and I say that because I think the grounding statement is this is a performance based approach, right? It, it, it ultimately, at the end of it is I'm giving you the autonomy. Because I expect that you know when and how you perform best. So it is a trust.

Trust. I mean, it's interesting to say it and I always like that. Like we expect employees to trust us. Hey, we have your best intention. We wanna develop you. We're paying you fairly. We trust us. We're your employers. We, we'll, trust us to go both ways. We have to trust our employees. So I instead of like trying to prepare leaders overtly for it, actually try [00:21:00] and like ground line the statement as in like.

You know, they, you're expecting your employee to trust you. We're gonna trust them as well. We trust first. So if you don't believe someone's performing. And you know, if you were on my team, you'd hear me say like data and facts. What information, what is the performance expectations you've given them that they haven't met?

What are the data and facts as opposed to the, I don't think they're available or address it. Hey, I noticed you don't log on until like, would you say, I noticed, sorry, I'll, I'll say it this way. I would, would you say, I notice you don't log on until nine. But is that like, 'cause that's my schedule and that works for me.

I like to work at seven, so you know, I don't like to work at in the evening. So you have to remove that bias of, that's what I'm looking for now, collaboratively. If the timing that's best for the team is to all meet at 8:00 AM every Wednesday. 'cause that's when everybody's available. I. Then yes, that person needs to be available because that's collaboratively what's best for the organization.

So we, we really don't focus [00:22:00] on the what to do because I think, you know, that 5% of the organization that exists is going to exist whether they're in person or they're going to exist, whether they're sitting at home like that's performance.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: so you're started managing it on a case by case basis, right? Like as things come up, let's problem solve, let's talk about the facts and the data as you mentioned, so, okay. Okay, fair enough. So with the the Work Hour Way program, are there any other facets to it, or is it mainly around the scheduling?

The when and the, the where.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: The scheduling is the, actually probably the last thing. And it's the thing we focus on the least. It, nobody talks about scheduling. I would honestly say that. Like there is no, when are you, it's actually one of our kind of taboos is you don't ask people, you ask people like, Hey, I'm trying to book a meeting.

Are you available? But it's not. When are you working? 'cause it

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: I just meant that people get to choose when and where.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Oh yeah, yeah.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: are there other components of the program or is that kind of what that means? Work our way.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: no, it's really around performance. And so it, you know, we look at it [00:23:00] as a way to really qualitatively improve our. Our, our performance management, which is what are the outcomes, what are the agreed upon outcomes, and what is the success, like, what is the path to success to achieve those? So really at the on, you know, early onset of, you know, Lisa and I have a project to do, we're going to map out what we need to do, or a program or whatever.

And really in the early stages being what are the things that we need to do? What is independent work? What is teamwork? What are the interdependencies? Then how are we gonna be successful delivering it? So that's the other really key component to it. And then I would say like, actually probably foundationally the whole baseline is, you know, us building the psychological safety we need in the organization to actually have true a truly diverse.

Inclusive work environment where people can show up and be their best selves like that is actually the grass, you know, the kind of foundation and grassroots of it. But [00:24:00] if you were to say, what's the other key component? It's performance. How are we gonna maximize our performance?

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Got it. Okay. Alright, so tell let's, away from work our way, which is really interesting. Thanks for, for kind of letting us pull back the curtains and, and take a look at that. Well, when you look at your portfolio, so you've got quite a range of, of functions, if you will, underneath it, and what do you see as the, the thread that connects them?

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: mean, yeah, there's, there's probably three significant threads that we look at. One of them is the capacity in the organization. So when you start to look across project management, workforce planning, talent, strategic resource planning, and you know, kind of. Do we have, and then I could go physical capacity and say workplace, but I won't, I'll say like really like pure capacity of the organization.

We've got that pocket through enterprise project management, change management, and then re resource planning. Then we look at the [00:25:00] capability across the organization and that really starts to look across the talent components largely. How does that all weave? Do we have the actual capability and then both internally and externally?

How is that? Capability being managed. So from a brand perspective, are we, are we able to partner with the right external partners? Do our stakeholders have buy-in to the capability? So that's the second key component. The third one is around experience. And that's really where I. Every single one.

I'm gonna say maybe not project management, but all of the other portfolios really weave together. What is our travel and security experience? Do we feel like it's a safe place to work? What is the experience that we offer from a, I'm sorry. The other one I probably should have said is the tie across to change management being of course, with communications, right?

What are we communicating both internally and externally? And then, sorry, if I go back to experience, just, you know. What is the experience of not only working at Aimco, being a client of Aim [00:26:00] CO's coming and visiting our office space, if that's what you choose to do and or, you know, kind of, working from home.

Like what is the experience If we say, yeah, someone's fully remote, they, they work and live out of Victoria, British Columbia, which we have multiple employees who do but they're working for Alberta Investment Management Corporation. So their tie is to the success of Alberta. What is the experience of that?

So that's those three pillars that we tie everything together with.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: I'm curious why you said, the experience piece would apply to all of them except maybe PMO 'cause I'm thinking about, well, PMO internally, certainly everybody's, many people will have an opportunity to work with PMO and experience what it's like to be on a project and, you know, work with somebody who's managing that, but without direct authority and so on.

So, I'm just curious what, like, where that came from for you.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Yeah. No, and you're right. Like, don't get me wrong there. I think there's an experience of like, what's the experience like of being in a multifaceted team at Aimco? I was thinking more like when I'm looking at their strategic levers [00:27:00] and, and strategy and plans go forward, project management we're not, in my mind.

I'm like, well, we're not really evaluating. They're being evaluated on certainly their internal client service but not necessarily on their external client service at, at that point. Yeah,

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Yeah.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: where my mindset went.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, I thought it was, it was maybe something like that, but, okay. Alright. So with the, with the, what did you call it, workplace safety and travel, I'd love to understand

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: travel security.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: a little more about, about that piece of your puzzle. What happens there?

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: I mean, well, I, and I'll break them down. Like we look at, what I started to look at was, yes, we have office space, certainly, and, and given, if you think about it in such an environment where people are like, you know, kind of coming in and out of the office, there's not a guaranteed volume in any given office any given day.

It really became more about the workplace can be your home. Might be your kitchen island, it might be your home [00:28:00] office, it might be wherever, might be a coffee shop, an airport. So what is the tie between, in what it's like to work at Aimco based on a physical attributes? You know, certainly where I sit, but then even, you know, if I say what type of monitors, what's our expectation around audio, visual audio in the environment how do we connect, what's our connectivity tools?

If I look at like, what is the administrative support? So that's really workplace focus. Like how do we maximize the capacity of our, of our employees by having not just, I don't mean like just country club, 'cause I certainly, we do drive a bit of a, how do I make it a concierge feel? Like it does feel nice to have that.

But equally, no, I've got the tools I need. Like, and I don't just mean pens and pencils, those the easy ones. Like I've got the tools I need to do great work.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: tell us about the function then. So it sounds like this is, this is a I don't know, set up as a resource that people can avail themselves up to, to ensure that they have, you know, the right AV connectivity and men support and all that [00:29:00] kind of stuff. So, so what does that actually look like technically, if you don't mind sharing.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Yeah, no I don't. We're actually in the middle of build out, so I mean, I've had this portfolio since July and we've hired a new senior manager to come in and lead it because prior we had focused purely on, if I say bricks and mortar and, you know, office setup and what art is on the walls. And, you know, in bringing in that leader mic, it was really around how do we shift and pivot the concept of workplace.

Workplace for the future, not workplace, for the today. So when you think about, you know, workplace for the future, we need great connectivity. We need to ensure that our col, our collaborative tools are top notch. I may need a virtual assistant because that's super helpful to me to like, Hey, how do I get all of this managed and moving?

And so that's some of the components that were in the middle of build out. Not all of it's done, but really stepping away from like a traditional workplace mindset. We still have some of that for sure, but how do we, you know, we've just last week, last week, it [00:30:00] was last week. The team rolled out a new platform called Office Space.

So we've now moved into outside of, you know, individuals who are always in the office three to five days a week, which is, you know, let's say 10% of our organization the remaining 90% are on a full hotel. Model And what does that mean to hotel model? Well, if I hotel model and I office space and I can do that across any of our offices globally.

And how do I know what is the admin support I, if I'm coming in, how do I book all that? So taking that whole piece up a complete level so we're not sitting with maybe traditional. Administrative assistants or executive assistants who are sitting at the desk waiting for when you get in. 'cause you might not be coming in, right.

You might be hosting a virtual panel which is, and how do we ensure that you can host a virtual panel?

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Yeah, it's my, my virtual assistant is in Saskatchewan and we work really, really well together. She's amazing, Colleen. So, so it is interesting, you know, like, 'cause it, I, it doesn't feel like I'm missing out on anything because I don't physically [00:31:00] see this person, you know, I've never met her in person and we've worked together for over two years.

So it's interesting. So, by the way, I just have to comment. So, have you ever seen the movie office space?

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Yes, I have.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: All I can think about, as soon as you said the platform was called, office Space was somebody took my stapler, the poor man.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Well, we haven't had that, but you know, but think about it. You talk about like virtual assistant, right? Like. That's really critical. I know, I mean, we have tons and tons of situations where people are, you know, we're hosting virtual panels or platforms or, and people might not all be coming into the office because it's not appropriate.

It's not the best place for them to do that work. You know, we've got leaders that, like I said, are all over the country, so they're not necessarily coming into the office. So yeah, so that's where we, we sit.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Excellent. Excellent. All right, well, so we're coming near the, the end of our time together, but I did wanna ask you about something else because I know that you have responsibility for executive succession planning and that, that you've had that previously in your career at other organizations and something that you had shared with [00:32:00] me.

Before when we met, kind of stuck out, which was, I think I had asked you, you know, you've been with some smaller organizations, some larger ones, and you know, how do they feel to you? Do they feel different? And would you mind sort of telling us about what your experience has been like?

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, executive succession is a, is a core function in my role and has been, you know, I guess for the last number of years. And I think what I look at it is really around, and, and you and I were talking about, you know, small, medium, large, and. Probably because we have multi, multiple offices.

It is really, I don't see the size difference in the same way. If I was sitting in an office that had, you only have 10 floors here, we have 50 floors somewhere. and, and when you tie that back to executive succession, it's really around, you know. Executive teams, and if anywhere from let's say six to 10 individuals, doesn't matter exact size, but it's really around identifying like, how do we have a sustainable [00:33:00] succession cohort that's going to fill that for the next five to 10 to 15 years?

Like, how do we really look at talent outward? And, and I think, you know, from my perspective, it is, it's the exact same process. No matter if it's a. 120, I mean, a hundred might be a bit small, let's say 200 group firm to 20,000. You're really going through the same methodologies. You might have a broader pool that you are narrowing down to, and you might have a stronger, a broader pool that you, or a smaller pool that you are narrowing down.

But either way, you're identifying what is the skills required to be a successful executive in our organization. Do we have individuals we've identified that have the potential to either develop those skills or the potential to or have those skills and, you know, we need to continue to hone them and harness them and what are we doing to keep them engaged and give realistic timelines?

One of the realities that I often do is, you know, we do a lot of exercises with executive [00:34:00] succession around. When are they gonna be ready? One year, two year, three to five year? Who knows? Right? Would you move them in there? And usually the question I say is, would you move them in there today if this person left, yes or no?

And then it's like, well, no. Okay. Would you move them in there in three years you think, as a guest? Okay, sure. Yes. So I say all of that because the reality is in larger organizations, so maybe the one nuance of it is we have a tendency to want to include more people in the executive executive cohort.

The reality is it's the same six to 10 roles are gonna be available in the next, I don't know, five to 10 years, whatever, depending on your, you know, the levels and seniority and, and tenure of individuals. So that would be the one thing that I think is different is the tendency to, to want to include more people.

If you have a broader pool and, you know, my driver or push on that is no, we identify an executive succession cohort. We commit to the development of that group. If and, and we stay [00:35:00] within, you know, a certain percentage as identified. So for us, you know, again, with about eight individuals in our executive team, we max out at, at 15, kind of 15 to 16 names.

It's almost like two per and even that is, is a lot, right? You think about that. 

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Yeah. That's been generally the, the guideline in my experience, you know, is, is, is first of all, I do wanna say I relate to this, this tendency to wanna include more people, like to, you know, to have them kind of in that, in that broader pool. I've seen that at play. Typically though, when doing it myself, it's been trying to come up with two.

Like realistic potential successors for each role. Sometimes with your critical roles, it may only be one. And by the way, for listeners, if you're looking for more, if this part of the conversation is really peaking your interest, there is another episode. Succession planning, I think it's, yeah, succession planning.

I can't remember what else is in the title with Melissa Law. And that's a great conversation. A lot of people like as a resource. So I'll just [00:36:00] mention that because what Chris is talking about is kind of adding onto that conversation. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for, for, you know, allowing us into your world at Aimco and, and, and talking about some of the great things that you're doing and, and the culture that you've built.

It sounds like a great place to work.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: I mean, I, I absolutely love Inco. I love the culture we're building. You know, we're entering into a culture and values review actually in 2024 to ensure that, as you know, we've had a, a. Significant amount of leadership change and we wanna make sure that our current culture that we believe is like is and values are aligned to where we're going.

So, that's important that that's, but it's a pretty great one.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate1: Sounds like exciting work. Wonderful. Well, I wish you all the best with that. Thank you for taking time out with us today.

Krista Pell GMT20231213-201250_Recording_separate2: Thanks. Thanks Lisa. [00:37:00]