Mental Health First Aid with Manisha Mistry

“Our health and safety program has become more than just a traditional safety program…[it] looks at the whole person whether that is physical or psychological.”
-Manisha Mistry

How well does your organization support employee mental health?   How well do employees avail themselves of existing resources?  Tune in today to learn about mental health first aid training and how to help people take advantage of your offerings just-in-time.

My guest is Manisha Mistry. For two decades, Manisha has solidified her reputation as one of Canada’s leading health and safety professionals. In her role as Senior Director of Health, Safety, Security and Environment (HSSE) and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) at CSA Group she works to create a safe and inclusive environment for employees across all locations worldwide. Manisha leads a high-performing team of health and safety professionals to manage a global, multi-site HSSE management system registered to the ISO 45001 and ISO 14001 standards, while supporting the continuous evolution of CSA Group’s ‘safety-first’ culture. She also spearheads CSA Group’s Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) program. In this role, she focuses on bringing together the organization’s many diverse stakeholders with the aim of establishing a safe and inclusive environment for all global employees. She is best described as an authentic life-long learner who keenly supports employees on their own personal and professional development journeys.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• The commonalities between the functions of Health and Safety, and DEI and why you might choose to combine them 
• An overview of the Mental Health First Aid Program (see link below; publicly available) and how to support and sustain it using ambassadors as conduits between employees and resources
• How to trust that people will find and leverage resources when they are ready

Links

• Manisha Mistry on Linkedin
• CSA Group
• Mental Health First Aid Standard Course: https://openingminds.org/training/mhfa/standard/ 
• Teeth-grinding/jaw yoga and meditation resources: https://insighttimer.com/kieferfreund 

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Transcript

LM Ep 102

 [00:00:00] 

How well does your organization support employee mental health and how well do employees avail themselves of existing resources? I actually discovered today's guest on LinkedIn. She'd posted about the mental health first aid training She had [00:01:00] overseen at her company and the positive impact it's had I was intrigued and invited her to come talk with us about it.

My guest is Manisha Mistry. For two decades, Manisha has solidified her reputation as one of Canada's leading health and safety professionals. And in her role as Senior Director of Health, Safety, Security and Environment, as well as Diversity, Equity and Inclusion at CSA Group, she works to create a safe and inclusive environment, which I love, for employees across all locations worldwide.

Manisha holds a Bachelor of Applied Science specializing in occupational health and safety from Ryerson, now Toronto Metropolitan University, and a Canadian registered safety professional designation. She describes herself as an authentic lifelong learner who keenly supports employees on their own personal and professional development journeys.

Such a great conversation. Such a wonderful leader. Thanks for listening.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: [00:02:00] Hello and welcome back to Talent Management Truths. I'm your host Lisa Mitchell and today I have the pleasure conversation with Manisha Mistry and Manisha is the Senior Director of Health, Safety, Security and Environment and DE& I and she works at CSA Group. Great to have you on the show Manisha.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: Thank you.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: So let's begin by having you share a little bit about your career journey and what you do at CSA Group.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: Appreciate the opportunity to share today, Lisa. I started with CSA very early on. I actually was a student. My background academically is occupational health and safety, and I joined the organization in the student, as a student in the year later, once I graduated, I joined the organization as the first full time dedicated health and safety resource.

It's been two decades later, and it's been a wonderful learning experience, not just from the perspective of health and [00:03:00] safety, but also adding to the portfolio globally. So when I started, I was very focused on our Toronto location. Now I get to manage a team of global safety professionals. We manage a global program.

Our Employee basis 2000 employees, and we work collaboratively as a global team to manage the hazards and the risk associated with the work that we do. Since I've been with the organization, I've had an opportunity as well to work in the area of ethics and compliance now taking on the diversity, equity and inclusion.

Portfolio and leading that and then as well most recently working in ESG. So it's been really interesting to pull all of those things together. I've seen a lot of opportunity to get some synergy across those programs, build momentum but as well [00:04:00] connect the dots. Because when you do things in isolation, they only can go so far.

And when you start to look at things very holistically in an organization, it's amazing what you can achieve.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: beautiful. Yeah. So, so just recapping for listeners. I mean, that's, there's a, there's a whole lot of stuff going on here. So health, safety, security environment, we've got DEI in their ethics and compliance background and now ESG as well. So. I can, I'm sort of picturing this, this mind map in my mind, right, with all the synergies and all these connective all this connective tissue between these things.

So tell us about how you see the connection, particularly with your current portfolio.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: Yeah, it's when I first took on the diversity, equity and inclusion piece. It was very much, okay, I'm going to keep these 2 areas separate, right? So, the health and safety as well as the DE& I. And as I started to move forward and working [00:05:00] with key folks in the organization, working with a global DE& I council talking with our, my safety professionals, we realized that there was a lot of commonality And when we started to build out the DE& I program, what is our vision as an organization and putting it into what we call the six pillars of commitment, we realized one of the strongest Pillars was safe and supportive and when you start to drill that down, you know, and look at it from the psychological health and safety perspective, mental health and well being, it all connects back to our health and safety program because our, our, our program has become more than just a traditional safety program.

We've widened that scope over many years, just like a lot of other organizations to look at the whole person. Whether that's physical, psychological so [00:06:00] it, it has given us the ability now to look at the program from a DE& I perspective, but also build it back to make sure that we're doing all the right things to keep our employees healthy and safe.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: I just want to acknowledge how beautiful what you just said is, because I think, you know, that, that, you know, well, we were sort of. Joking, you know, ahead of the call. Well, it's not really a joke, but you know, just going back not that long ago, you know, making the case for marrying psychological safety with physical safety probably would have been met with a great deal of skepticism.

And here we are, you know, post COVID, I think that helped contribute to, to greater acceptance. It was already on the rise, but you know, they're completely and irrevocably connected.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: Absolutely. And CSA as an organization on our the Canadian standards side has done so much work in this space. We have a Canadian standard on psychological health and [00:07:00] safety and. When that was launched as an organization, we also held ourselves accountable for what are we doing internally with our employees.

And just before the pandemic had hit, we launched a project called Project Care.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Hmm.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: were very focused on implementing that standard and supporting our employees. And then once the pandemic hit, it was a matter of how do we do this all? But virtually so, you know, we were already on that journey when the pandemic hit, but then we decided we would pivot quite a bit, right?

To make sure that in a virtual environment, we would continue to empower our employees, support their mental health, make sure they had all the resources available to them but that we could also So Look at things from a perspective of DE& I, recognizing everyone was in a different situation and that they needed support reinforcing all the [00:08:00] things that we do in terms of providing mental health resources, making sure we were doing the right training with them but also reminding them of all the benefits that we offer.

And that was very critical. So it was another, like, although the pandemic was an event none of us wanted to go through, there was some silver linings with respect to how we handled it. And that connection and belonging that we could create for our employees who were stuck at home or who were working here at our labs, but were really isolated.

From each other. So it's, it's a matter of how you, you know, make lemonade out of lemons.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Yeah, and it's, it's so true. I saw this with so many organizations, certainly even just myself as a, as a, an entrepreneur with a small contractor team, you know, it's, I was already working from home, but I would be in person on client sites frequently. I'll tell you, though, you know, that some of the silver linings were.

What you described, like I, you know, dug into learning a whole lot more and met a [00:09:00] whole bunch of people virtually that I would never have anticipated this. And the people I talked to, whether in organizations or we're in the entrepreneurial world, that seems to be a common theme, right? That, that, yeah, it was tough.

Nobody wants to go back for sure. And. There were little, little silver, glimmers amongst all of that, that stuff that went on, right? That, that in retrospect, we've learned, you know, we've come to value. I, I want to pause for a second, actually, just because I want to bring our listeners up to speed on, on what CSA group does, because you just alluded to some of it and talked about people in labs and so on.

Could you just give us just a quick, quick kind of synopsis

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: Absolutely. So, CSA group also known as Canadian Standards Association there's two streams of business. The first is the Canadian standards side who facilitates the development of standards that support social good. for Canadians. And so, that's one part of our business. And the other part is the testing, inspection, [00:10:00] and certification side.

So, that's the global subsidiaries. And you'll, if you were to take a look at your hockey helmet, you'll notice the CSA mark your toaster, your plumbing It's very recognizable that mark once you become aware of it. you ask kids, you know, do you know what the CSA mark is, they typically go, yeah, that CSA, that's in my hockey helmet.

So

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Yeah, CSA approved. That's

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: approved.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: that's what you for that because I think it's just helpful for people to be able to kind of picture. And so it also makes sense that health and safety is such a critical, important component of your organization overall. So, You know, something that I really want to make sure that we talk about Manisha is, is I had noticed that you posted on LinkedIn.

That's how we met. You had spoken about the mental health first aid program that you've put in place at CSA. And I was really, really impressed with what you had written about it. And, and I'd like for you to [00:11:00] share what, what is a mental health first, first aid program, and maybe share a little bit of the, the design of it and the impact it's had for you guys.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: absolutely. Very Very much as we talked about our very traditional approach to health and safety and how it has evolved across organizations and globally, you know, moving to psychological health and safety and well being, you know, we recognize that we, we wanted to take a more formal approach to how we support our workforce.

And a few years ago, we decided, you know, similar to the way we do first aid. And first aid became less relevant when the majority of people went to virtual online work to, opposed to when they were on site. It was a matter of how do we take it and now add to that and offer a mental health first aid.

And we knew that this program existed. It was a global [00:12:00] program and we realized, you know what, let's. Identify a cohort in this organization, let's get them trained similarly to the way we would train for first aid. So we had initially about 150 employees that we reached out to. We said, we would love to have you participate in this program.

It's. It's super affordable, which is, you know, great employees could do it on their own time, depending on their time zones, the regional offerings. So from a lift perspective, it wasn't that intensive on our end. We just had to give permissions for folks to go and do it. So they came back and people loved the training, a lot of feedback around.

The fact that it was probably the most relevant and applicable training that they'd taken

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Wow.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: because there was scenarios where they could sit back and think, I take this training and apply it in my personal life. I feel more empowered to deal with [00:13:00] something if I come across a situation. I would have a conversation differently now that I've been trained.

I can't believe someone would have said that to me on the receiving end of it now knowing that that wasn't the right thing maybe for someone to say to me if I was dealing with the situation. So, very relevant training. But then we realized we need to take it to the next level because there's one thing to train.

There's another thing to do something with that training. And right, right, it's taking it to the next level. So we invited that same group to come together and participate in our mental health ambassador program which has now been coined the map. We were able to design a curriculum for this training and this group that goes through What our expectations were as being an ambassador what was expected in [00:14:00] terms of their role, where they go when they feel that they can no longer deal with the situation that they're in, how to address self care, because as an ambassador who might have someone coming to them with a difficult issue, you could be pointing them to the right resources, but it may sit with you.

And so how, as an ambassador, do you step back and care for yourself as well? Because in often cases, that can be triggering. So we were able to build a very robust program, being very clear with our ambassadors that you're not a counsellor, you're not a therapist, you are the conduit between our employees and the resources and help that they need.

And we've done role playing, so scenario situations where these ambassadors can come together, talk about number 1, that the types of situations that they might have been in [00:15:00] maintaining confidentiality and privacy are key but also allowing them to practice. Which is critical, when I first heard about an ambassador program being done at another organization, because by all means, we're, we are not the 1st ones.

There, there was a little bit of hesitation, like. But then once we started crafting the program, we realized as long as we put in the boundaries and the safety controls, and everyone knew the role as an employee leveraging the resources of the ambassadors, but also the ambassadors themselves, that we could do this safely.

So we're constantly reinforcing that again they're not therapists, they're not counselors, they're here to help you navigate the resources that are available to you. And we. Like most organizations have so many resources. But oftentimes, employees are not paying attention to how to access them and what is available to them until they're in a situation where they need them.

[00:16:00] And that's when things get really blurry, right? So it's nice to have another employee within the organization, a safe and supportive environment to say, Hey, let me help you find that. Let me direct you to the right person, the right resource, HR, your manager, whatever that looks like.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Yeah, because I think, I think you know, for, for many people in my own experience in different organizations, you know, we've often talked about the underutilization of EAP, employee assistance programs, or the different, you know, may not be the whole EAP service, but, but, Various elements of it right summer or use more than others and it's it's a large part of it is awareness.

Sometimes it's a bit of stigma. You know, people are reticent to to reach out for support. So having that, you know, use the word conduit having that. Employee peer conduit to help people. I think could take some of that, that hesitation away. So I think it's really neat that the role play to, [00:17:00] you know, as a, as a instructional designer trainer by trade originally, you know, role play is the thing that gets everybody rolling their eyes in the room.

And yet it is the most powerful way, hands down for people to actually try the words. On for size and and to see the impact, you know, whether it's it's positive or negative to understand. That's how you start getting feedback and start making these these skills your own. So I really think it's wonderful that you embedded that in there.

What else have you done? Like, what are some other components or tools that that you offer? These conduits within within the ambassador program?

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: Most recently, we introduced the Calm app to the organization globally. It has been very well received, but like any tool or resources that you provide, sometimes you got to teach folks how to use it. So we as in our mental health [00:18:00] ambassador program, and we have a wonderful program coordinator who loves to, to connect with our employees, started off with smaller groups of employees doing guided meditation.

So, they have become they have been growing in popularity they are placeholders in, in your calendar, for example, this week and it's a 30 minute placeholder, oftentimes it's not a full 30 minutes our ambassador will be on the call, employees can join virtually, they don't have to be on camera, they don't have to talk guided meditation will be selected for that That day, sometimes it'll be geared to the situation that is being it may be experienced in the organization.

So, we did have a session where we did have the loss of a colleague and the guided meditation was able to be geared towards grief and, and dealing with loss. Oftentimes 10 to [00:19:00] 13 minutes is all it takes to facilitate that and using the Calm App, it makes it really easy. And it's helping. Build a skill set.

I'm very much someone who believes in meditation, but I'm really bad at it and I have to recognize that it's a skill set you have to practice. You have to hone those skills and it's not something that's just natural for, for some of us.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: right. Well, it's, you know, that's that's. Kind of the whole point, right? Is this this idea, you know, in any kind of for people who haven't done meditation you know, whether it's guided or otherwise, it's this idea of, okay, notice, you know, if your thoughts start to drift and and gently bring them back. So, it's this idea, it's it to me, it leads to.

to a much more heightened ability to focus deeply to listen deeply. It is, it is tough. I don't think you can be bad at it. I think it's just one of those things where it's just like a continuous, I, for me, I've kind of dipped into it and out of it. [00:20:00] So I've dipped into it, you know, for instance, when my father died.

During COVID actually, and I was just, I kind of fell to my knees with grief, so that's why I appreciate you sharing this example. And I turned to meditation was grinding my teeth. And I found this I googled, help, how do I stop grinding my teeth while I sleep, right? and I'm going to put it in the show notes for listeners, because if you, if you, Don't have access to the calm C.

A. L. M. app don't want to pay for it. There's another one. And I just I'm looking on my phone here to see what it was called. But it's a it's a free 1 and it offers some really neat resources. But that really helped me get grounded when the grief would. Would well up right and kind of sneak up on me when I really didn't need it to your wanted to write because I still had to go about, you know, getting life stuff done.

So, the fact you're offering, you know, guided meditation in general, and the, the, the ambassador program, and then to actually acknowledge that, hey, there's been a loss [00:21:00] here. You know, we've lost a colleague who passed away. It wasn't a safety related incident, but, you know, like that. That hits people. We're, we're so connected and to, to know, my goodness, a contemporary of mine has gone giving them that kind of outlet and it just might encourage them to take advantage of it, you know, at another time when they're facing something on their own.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: Absolutely, we've, we've also kind of stepped back and said, you know, the Calm app can support us in so many different ways. So we've been acknowledging that with our employee resource groups as well. So we launched those during the pandemic as well. We launched WEN, our Women's Empowerment Network, as well as our Parents and Caregivers Network, which is called the PAC.

And being able to show the pack, for example, that there's resources on the app that they can use for kids, for aging parents talking to them about [00:22:00] employee assistance programs and how it can support them. In all the roles that they play, not just as an employee, but beyond work it has been really instrumental.

And I think it's important, you know, part of the, the, the messaging around connection and belonging is for us through these is providing safe spaces for employees to come together on for whatever dimensions they want to represent. So, whether you're a woman you're a mother, you're a caregiver to elderly parents, whatever that looks like, there's a place for you.

We're also launching most recently our PRIDE ERG focused on supporting the LGBTQ2 plus community. So, we're excited about that one, but like I mentioned, it's connecting it back to creating safe and supportive work environments for our employees.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Yes. Yeah, these employee resource groups so powerful and to ensure, you know, to use your language, there's a place for you here. I think that's[00:23:00] you know, really goes to underscoring your valued and we want to retain you help you stay engaged, feel like, you know, coming to work is, is is connected to overall purpose.

I just. Just going back to the meditation, you know, I, I, I still run into, as I'm sure you do sometimes, there's certain folks that, that will say, Oh, it's fluffy, you know, that's, that's just fluffy and, you know, grit your teeth and suck it up buttercup kind of thing, like, just move through it. Right. But, but often that's due to their own discomfort with, with yeah.

Speaking out about these things, how do you kind of meet, meet those people where they are and help them move past that perception?

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: I think it's important to recognize that employees and individuals as individuals ourselves is that we are all at different points of our journey and there are some folks that [00:24:00] may say it's fluff and walk away but those may be the same folks that come back at some point in time. So it's not necessarily that when we offer you that resource you're ready for it but it's there when you need it.

And I think that's important.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Yes, that's a great point. So there's a readiness factor. So, so simple. So, and I think that's important for listeners, right? The, the, the people that are listening are, are folks like us. I keep saying folks. I sound like Doug Ford. I don't mean to, but

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: a lot too.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: that's coming from today, but, you know, the listeners are comprised of, of HR, T and D L and D, O, D, D and I practitioners, you know, sort of across that whole employee experience landscape.

And I think sometimes. We can get so invested in, you know, here's what we're offering. And, you know, initially, why isn't anybody taking advantage of it? Or why don't they, you know, believe in it as strongly as we do. And, and, you know, so I think your, your point is well taken, which is, you know, we just have to not be [00:25:00] discouraged at the first point, right?

Like it's put it out there and then plant the seed and then let's water it a little bit and put it out again. And, and people will find their way there when the need arises and when the readiness occurs.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: You're right. And sometimes it's a matter of. Continuously sharing, and we try to weave all of our offerings, all of our communications into everything that we do. As safety professionals, you know, my team sits back and thinks, you know, from a safety perspective, how do we change a behavior? How do we get folks to follow procedure?

And we have to look at it from, it's not just Putting out a procedure into the world and hoping that it sticks, right? It's, it's communicating, over communicating, teaching folks how to do something reinforcing it, coming back, evaluating it. It's a continuous improvement loop, and that's really important.

And that's no different. I think that [00:26:00] looking at it from the. other side, the HR side of it, right? When we're trying to help employees you know, navigate their, their own careers or find their place in the organization as an employee. So there, there's a lot of continuous communication that's required.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Yeah, you can't. Over communicate is, is what I like to say, right? Particularly when I teach change management, for instance, and, you know, it's, it's embracing the iteration. Just, just know there's going to be lots of iterations. This is an evolution. This is something that's going, you know, if we're going to be truly agile as leaders and as organizations, then we, we, we, we, we must expect.

That it's not just like a done deal at one and done. It just isn't, especially when it comes to you know, people navigating this kind of change, right? And the different stuff, like, as things come up, life is not static, right? You know, we have good, good points in time where we're kind of in flow and then we [00:27:00] get into sort of those ebbing periods where we're like, Oh my God, can anything go our way?

You know, there could be a whole bunch of stuff happening.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: think it's also important that we share, you know, when we talk about, you know, being authentic or leading authentically, I think, you know, the more we humanize. Our work, and we talk about our experiences, even on the, you know, D. E. and I side is understanding employees experiences and what they're dealing with.

I think it's important. I, I think it's so valuable to continue the conversation to hear from our colleagues to hear from our leaders. And we, we've been able to do that really well where we do connect. We're able to hear from our leaders, whether it's understanding their perspective around DE& I, and maybe what they've dealt with throughout their lives their journeys but as well as, you know, how they've navigated their careers.

I think it's, it's [00:28:00] something that you can't take away from employees as they listen, and they understand the journeys that everyone's on. But also as we leverage the resources. It's nice to hear from someone saying, Oh yeah, you know, I used this benefit and it was amazing and this is what I used it for.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Like your use case scenarios, you know,

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: exactly,

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: I tried this on, you know, and, and, and, and this is what I, what I got out of it. So,

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: or the did you know, did you know that you can do this? And, and sometimes it's just hearing it from someone else.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: yeah, it's, you know, that's perfect. so let's just, you know, take a bit of a go around the curve a little bit around the corner and, and turn our attention. As we move towards the end of our conversation towards the whole return to office scenario, okay, and, and how you have helped CSA navigate that, certainly from a safety perspective, but [00:29:00] it's, it's been a bit of a journey, right?

With you've come up with a new campaign, I know, but people have sort of, yeah, you get rusty after three years, you sort of forget what What do we need to do here and what are the, the, the ways I was just I had a bad head cold as I shared with you earlier. That's my sounds a little funny today. And I went back to the gym yesterday and honestly, so it's just it's circuit training.

It's at 45 and I love it. But it was like. I was still maybe a little foggy. I don't know. I heard, like, there was a couple things where I, like, went to the wrong station. Like, I was just off, right? And, and, and, you know, my, I could see that my partner was over there, but I went the opposite direction. I was just a little foggy, right?

So I sort of forgotten in just that short period, a couple things. I wasn't totally on my game. So what did it look like for, for you and your employees as people were brought back?

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: Yeah, so we, we had a probably about 40 percent of our workforce who never left so they were able to continue working on [00:30:00] site throughout the pandemic, but then the other 60 percent or so that worked remotely and, you know, as we return employees back, we recognize that the rhythm was off, you know, as we're looking at The number of hazards being reported all of the data and the trends that we were expecting, weren't coming in the same level that we're used to.

We, we manage a very robust health and safety program. So we're very used to seeing a certain level of reporting. And we realized that when employees were off in their own space, whether they be it in the lab or they're working from home, that. It wasn't the same level of engagement coming back, so we decided we needed to shake things up.

Do a little bit of a refresh. So we started a campaign called stop and think.[00:31:00] And another tagline we use is see safe, be safe and it's a matter of making sure that employees understand that they have a role to play and reminding them that they had this role before the pandemic and they continue to have it, but we're only as good as their engagement and their participation in the program.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Yes.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: Right? So, you know, reminding them what hazards were, re communicating to them about the importance of reporting things that they see and situations that are happening so that we could address them. So, we've been starting to see that healthy engagement again in this space, which is very important for us, because if we can address the hazards, we can minimize the number of injuries that we have.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Yeah. Such a great practical example of, of, you know, something to consider as, as, you know, companies are navigating this return to office for so many people, because it's, it's, [00:32:00] it's something that all, all companies are grappling with in some shape or form, right? Depending on how they've, they've gone about, you know, mandating five days a week or two days, and now it's three and, and so on.

And this is just one of many things, right? We have to remember that You know, we've lost muscle mass, memory muscle around some of these things that we took for granted that were well entrenched, you know, before, before everything happened.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: I called it, I called it building endurance and stamina.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Oh, 

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: And once you get there, you're, you're, you're in the groove and it takes a little time, but once you get there, you know, you find your rhythm again,

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Well, I'm hoping that I'm going to feel that way on Friday when I go to the gym again. That I'm back on track and I'm not, I'm not hurting so badly.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: love it.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate1: Oh, well, thank you so much, Manisha. It's just been such a pleasure. I it's so invaluable having you share what you've been doing. Some really amazing work supporting the employees through this Mental Health Ambassador program and [00:33:00] just everything you've been doing.

Thank you very much for being so specific and open to sharing with us.

Manisha GMT20231004-164824_Recording_separate2: Thank you for having me, Lisa.