Supporting the Legal Department with Brad Beuttenmiller

“Sometimes you have to be willing to kind of broaden your horizons a bit and think a bit outside the box in terms of finding someone who may not have the experience that you're looking for but who you think nonetheless has great skills and could grow into that role." - Brad Beuttenmiller

How do you keep your team thriving in a landscape where the skills needed are sometimes hard-to-find, and where growth opportunities within the same role are limited? Are you offering your employees avenues for development in place, creatively enriching their current positions? Are you thinking outside the box in terms of where to find new hires? 

Well today we have a non-HR business leader here - representing our stakeholders in general, and the Legal department in particular!   

Today’s guest is a friend and former colleague  - we shared an office wall!  Brad Beuttenmiller is Senior Associate General Counsel and the head of legal for Franklin Templeton’s Canadian and Americas (ex-US) regions.  Brad has been with Franklin Templeton for over 21 years.  Brad received a B.B.A. from Wilfrid Laurier University, an LL.B. and M.B.A. from the University of Windsor and an LL.M. from Osgoode Hall Law School.  Brad lives with his wife and four children in Bayfield, Ontario.

In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you’ll discover:

• Insights into what your Legal colleagues are looking for when it comes to recruiting
• Ideas for development in place when senior positions are limited
• Thoughts around the role of visibility in career growth

Links

• Brad Beuttenmiller on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brad-beuttenmiller-84b018142/ 

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Transcript

LM Ep 129

 [00:00:00] How do you keep your team thriving in a landscape where the skills needed are sometimes hard to find, and where growth opportunities within the same role are limited? Are you offering your employees avenues for development in place, creatively enriching their current [00:01:00] positions? Are you thinking outside the box in terms of where to find new hires?

Well, today we have a non-HR business leader representing our stakeholders in general and the legal department in particular. Today's guest is a friend and former colleague. We shared an office wall going way back. Brad Bemiller is Senior Associate General Counsel and head of legal for Franklin Templeton's, Canadian and America's Regions.

Brad's been with Franklin Templeton for over 21 years, whereas I was only there for eight. he lives with his wife and four kids in Bayfield, Ontario. In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you'll discover insights into what your legal colleagues are looking for when it comes to recruiting ideas for development in place, when senior positions are limited, and thoughts around the role of visibility in career growth and joy. 

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Hello and welcome back to Talent Management Teresa. I'm your host, Lisa Mitchell, and today I'm joined by an old friend [00:02:00] and colleague, Brad Butte. Miller. Brad is the Senior Associate General Counsel at Franklin Templeton Investments. Welcome to the show, Brad.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Thanks for having me, Lisa.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: So you and I go way back. My God. In fact, I think it was 2012 when I left.

Franklin. So we haven't worked together since then, but I think we probably had about a five year run where we were, we were partner, I think it was your, your HR business partner at the time for a while there.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Neighbors too.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: and neighbors, we shared, shared an office wall. Yeah. Good times, good

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: probably why you left. 'cause of my loud voice.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Nah, I, no, it's all good.

It's all good. So maybe we could start off, you know, first of all, thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate your willingness to share with, with our listeners a little bit about, life as a, as a business leader outside of hr, right? So you're what I would call a stakeholder. So you're somebody that people in the people functions, hr, od L and d would partner with to help you operate your, your area [00:03:00] efficiently and effectively.

So when it comes to the people component. So, so our interview's really gonna kind of be based around, around that for listeners to get some insights into, you know, what's, what works for you, what doesn't, and, and so on and so forth. So, just off the top, if you could tell us a little bit about how you got into the legal arena and what drew you to it and, and what you do at Franklin. 

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: I applied to law school coming out of university. I guess I probably for many of the same reasons that others apply, you know, with law, it's, it's, you, you think it's, it's maybe a bit glamorous, although it really isn't, at least not what I do. But you know, there's also a sense of I think in my own case, you know, I, I'm a rules based person and you know, the, the whole concept of being a law lawyer following the rules and advising your clients on, on, on following the rules as well.

The particular area law that I, that I. Practice or that I, what I was drawn to is, was, you know, corporate, commercial law and really just, you know, helping [00:04:00] clients you know, grow their businesses and providing advice to them and, and help them manage and grow their businesses.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yeah. And you work in a highly regulated arena being wealth management and mutual funds and so on. So was there, did, did you fall into that particular industry or was it something that you were drawn to from the get go? I.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Well. It's, it's interesting because I, I've, I've thought a lot about this. I, I, I, I, I, I, I think, and this kind of goes to, you know, what you learn about, about yourself and about your career is when I look back now, I think that there were kind of three particular. Areas I was drawn to. Number one was kind of corporate, commercial, specifically corporate securities law.

Number two, being in-house as opposed to being in private practice. And the third is practicing in the financial services area, specifically investment management. And although I. When I was going to law school and when I was early in my career, I didn't have that kind of clear vision. And now when I look back, I [00:05:00] think that all of the choices I made kind of led me to where, to where I am now.

So I think, I mean, those are, I think the three aspects of my job that, that I really like. And, and the reason I'm at Franklin Templeton is I practice corporate securities law. I practice I'm in house and I practice. You know, I'm in the financial services industry, so.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yeah, so you kinda end up checking all the boxes. It is interesting, right, because I sort of always have said, you know, initially I sort of let my career happen to me and then I sort of decided, no, I'm gonna take more control over it. And as I reflect on it more, that's not fully the case. 'cause I trained to be a teacher originally, so I was very intentional, very clear on what I wanted.

It was just when tea, when I got disillusioned with teaching after two years and I left that, but then I was sort of like, oh my God, who, you know, where am I gonna go to next? And sort of fell into corporate. What didn't really know much about, you know. That I could even select an industry or targeted in industry.

And it just kind of turned out and I got more intentional again as I went along. But it is [00:06:00] fascinating how, you know, you said, oh, I'm a rules-based person, and law suits you for that. Right? Like it's, it's interesting 'cause I had considered being a lawyer as well before I became a teacher. And 'cause I liked, you know, I was good in debate club and all that kind of stuff, and I'm a reader.

At the same time I don't think I. That I like details enough ultimately, and that's where I sort of went. Yeah, I don't think that's gonna be completely for me. I remember talking to a teacher in grade 13 about that deciding no.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Well, here's the interesting thing. I mean, obviously as you know, you can do, you know, there's many different areas of law to practice and, and even within those areas there's different types of practice. I mean, personally. Many of the areas don't, I don't think suit me. I, I, I, I, I like, I like the law. I like, like all the courses I took in law school.

But when I think about practicing in an area like litigation for instance, that doesn't appeal to me. I the idea, you know, going to court and, and, and. Arguing or [00:07:00] debating? I, it just, I, I would much rather help, you know, my clients, you know, as I said earlier, you know, build and grow their businesses.

And you know, a lot of litigation is Fighting or advocating for your client's position, which really doesn't suit me. I, I, I tell people that if I never set foot in a courtroom again, I, I, I, I will be happy. So that's it. It, you know, you, you, you talk about, you know, debating and, and, and stuff like that, but, and, and that there's still obviously elements of that for what, for what I do, but you know, the reality is, is that, I, what I do is pushing paper, which to some people would be you know, would, would not be their cup of tea, but I, I like it. I like, I like what I do and, and it's not, it's not all of what I do, but you know, there is that element of it as well. So,

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's interesting. Well, it's, it is, you know, my mom was a a kindergarten teacher, well, grade two I guess, as well. And, and I was a middle school teacher and neither of us could quite understand how the others did. The other person did what they did, even though we were both teachers. So it's like you're saying, you know, in, in-house counsel, I remember [00:08:00] having a conversation with one of your.

Former employees one of the, one of the lawyers there. And I remember her saying, yeah, in-house is for me. 'cause she had tried the litigation side and it wasn't for, wasn't, wasn't a good experience for her. Right. And yet I know lawyers who, who really thrive in that. Okay. Well, so tell us a little bit about who, who you are besides work.

 you have a very busy family life too.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: I do. Yes. I'm married. My wife Pam and I have been married for almost 27 years, although she likes to tell everyone that we've been together for almost 34. So she counts those, she counts those seven years before we were married. I guess

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: The court in years.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Yes, exactly. And we have four kids. Our, we have two sons.

Two daughters. Three of our kids are currently in post-secondary education studying. And so it's actually a bit quiet at home right now, but when they all come home at, it gets busy again. And so, we also have three dogs. 

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Three dogs. Oh wow. One or two was weren't enough.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: well, I would joke every time one of our. Children leaves for school, we get another dog. So, [00:09:00] but my wife's assured me that we're not getting a fourth when our youngest leaves, so,

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Love it. Yeah, well we, we adopted a, another rescue last year 'cause we have a 13-year-old now, a 2-year-old, and it's, it's, yeah. Having the second dog, it's, it's that much busier, but it is even that much, much more fun. So I, I get you on the dogs thing.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: yes. Well, we were walking them the other day and we were we were, we were saying how it's just like having kids again. So,

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Yeah. And they all have their own personalities and needs. It's awesome. Alright, well let's, let's dig into a little bit about just the whole concept of how you as a, as a stakeholder in the area of. In the legal area of a company, you know, ha work with or rely on people in the people area. So people that are helping you with, anything people related recruitment or, or talent or performance issues with, with, with staff and so on.

What do you see as the people, team's core value? How would you articulate the value they bring [00:10:00] to the organization and to you?

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Well, I think their core value is obviously attracting Quality candidates and employees, and then, you know, helping us to motivate, grow tho those employees and, and you know, so we ultimately, you know, the team we have is the best team possible and we can, we can in turn support the business and achieving their objectives.

So.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yeah, well, I like how you paint the picture that it's kind of this domino effect, right? You gotta get the right people in place and make sure that they have what they need in order to create that team in order to, you know, achieve the results.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: I mean, it's interesting because like HR, in a way, we're a support function for the business, right? We support the business We want to be a good business partner and help help them achieve their objectives. So, you know, I think in, in, in, in some respects, we have a lot of the same goals or values as, as, as hr.

It's like HR wants to be seen as a, as a valued business partner. We do as well legal.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: That's a great point, right? Because you're, you're not you know, you're not a [00:11:00] vertical that's sort of onto, its its own. You're working across the business. You have that breadth of perspective that I'm always talking about when it comes to the HR side. That is interesting. 

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: And I, I would note too, and interestingly, I think our perspective is, a bit unique because not only are we a client of hr, but. Sometimes HR is a client of ours, right? 

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yeah.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: unfortunately, one of the aspects of our jobs is, you know, sometimes employees leaving voluntary or otherwise.

And so, you know, we, we work with HR on, on issues that arise from those situations. So,

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: I remember being heads down with you over some, some particular cases, right. And trying to figure out approaches and, and so on. And yeah. Really interesting. That's such a good point. We give you clients of each other. Yeah. So you get it. You, you understand, right? Like there's this desire to be at the table to add value.

And also though not to be seen as, you know, just this cost center that that's, you know, taking up space or. [00:12:00] Or something like that. When you think about the best experience you've had when it, when it comes to, HR service partnering for you to support you in some aspect of your role as a senior leader, what, what comes to mind?

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: So I think working with HR to help, you know, find, recruit the right people with the right skills and then developing those people and ultimately providing path for those people to. Grow and develop and succeed and, and feel engaged with the organization so that they, you know, they wanna stay with the organization.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yes, so important What would you say that typically members of your team, how, what are they like and what are they looking for when it comes to growth? Because it means different things to different people.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Yeah. Well, I think, you know, growth means, you know, additional responsibilities learning new, new areas. I mean, people, [00:13:00] leader, responsibilities all those things. 

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, because I think, you know, when I think about the people that I knew on your team back in the day, you know, they were very driven, right. And, and wanted to do really well, and, and were always, you know. Needed some variety, needed some change. Couldn't just do the same thing forever too.

Right. So there's gotta be this, this, I, I like the concept of development in place because we can't always promote people. 'cause there's only, you know, it gets narrower as you go up. There's only so many roles. So how has that sort of come into play for you and how has HR helped you?

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: first of all, I mean our, our organization, as you said, it's, it's a large organization, but our team in Canada is small and, you know, the, the nature of the practice of law is that you're, you're, you're generally only qualified to, to practice in the jurisdiction which you're in.

That, that being said, I mean, there are opportunities outside of our borders. And, and I've been the beneficiary of that. I've, I've had in, [00:14:00] in, in my career at Franklin Templeton, I've had some US responsibilities. I, I now have some responsibilities for, south America. And so, you know, translating that to the team, it's, it's, you know, trying to find areas, you know, expanding their remit, expanding their responsibilities, expanding the areas of law that they might practice getting them involved in, in, in new things.

It's, it's maybe getting them involved in areas that are. Strictly speaking, like legal, like on various internal committees or, or, you know, other responsibilities of, of, of, of a similar nature to, to help them grow.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yeah, so it sounds like, you know, really broadening their experience, their exposure to different aspects of the business, different, types of, of work that they might be doing. So it's not all about the promotion. Again, this is stuff that can happen in role, how. How would you say, like what is it that you're looking for when it comes to having HR help you do [00:15:00] this?

Right? Grow your people.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: I, I guess what I'm looking for from HR are, you know. Some creative ideas on, on how we can, how we can develop people you know, how we can give them additional responsibilities. I mean, to your, to your point about development in place, what, what can you do to make people's role more meaningful and, feel like they're growing and, and developing?

So, you know, looking for HR to partner with, with me on that and, and to provide some, you know, creative solutions.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Well it also sounds like have like a bit of a sounding board, like it sounds like you have some great ideas about how to do it and having somebody to talk it through so that you can create a plan that's solid. Lid 

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: that's absolutely right. And I, I agree with you that, you know, it's, it's oftentimes is, we work within a global structure too, so it's talking to your business partner and, and you know, as you say, bouncing ideas off them and, and, you know, testing those ideas, whether they make sense in the context of the, the global structure and what we're doing in other regions.

you know, in order to be, you know, you, you wanna make sure there's some [00:16:00] consistency.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Well, and even, you know, when I think about, you know, my work over the decades in, in corporate either in HR or more in the, you know, the managing the employee experience talent space. But, you know, a, a key part of what I did in terms of how I worked with my internal stakeholders and business partners was helping them.

You know, have a view to what opportunities were out there too, right? So, so there's that breadth of, of perspective and knowledge about many different business units, not just one. So that can really help with internal mobility and also with just opportunities for the exposure that we were touching on.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Yeah, for, for sure. I, and I think that's the insti institutional knowledge, and I think you know, that comes with time. But I've been with Frank Templeton almost 22 years, and I have, I think, a fair amount of institutional knowledge. But, agree, it's, it's tapping into HR and the institutional knowledge that, that our business partners have.

And to [00:17:00] exactly what you said, to help us find the breadth. Now again, legal is a, is a bit unique because it's not like, I mean, if. If my team members wanted to move outside, they would, you know, it's, it's, they would be leaving the practice of law. So maybe that's an additional challenge with having a legal team.

It's not like you can move from sales to marketing or marketing to, you know, product strategy with, you know, if you move outta law, then you're no longer practicing law, which is what, what my colleagues want to do. But it so, so, so, you know, it's, it's finding opportunities within the legal team, whether they're Here in our own legal team, or maybe in the broader Franklin Templeton legal team, so.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Well, yes, I agree completely. That's a great point. I think, you know, it's just about. Ongoing dialogue to make sure that everybody's, you know, like, let's think about you. You mentioned committees, so they don't have to change being a lawyer in order to get more exposure to different big projects that are happening, you know, that's [00:18:00] happening and so on, and get exposure to that.

So where it might be typically you that. It, you know, they're, they're looking, you know, the company's looking to put you on a committee, you know, might be, Hey, Lisa's up and coming here, and she could use this exposure and I think she's ready. So let's get her representing legal there. And that could be an opportunity that, you know, you, you learned about through, could be HR or anybody else right.

That you may not have been aware of beforehand. Some.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: And it's getting them getting, I completely agree with you. It's getting them on those opportunities and also exposure to other senior people within the organization. The reality is, is our legal team, global legal team has, has changed quite a bit over the last few years. the individuals, the players have have changed.

And so it's, giving exposure and profile to our team members in the broader team so that, you know, people know who they are and, and, and therefore, you know, the, you know, the, you know, if you're top of mind for someone that. Creates additional opportunities.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: does. Yeah, it makes sense, [00:19:00] right? When things come along. Oh, I remember so and so, so, okay. So I'm hearing then that really, so the, the value for you with what you do is, is that, you know, partnering, bringing creative ideas, also being that sounding board to bounce ideas off of, sharing opportunities, brainstorming a little bit.

So all of that, what is, you know. Let's talk about, so that's the what, how they, they ha can help you and, and, and something that you value in terms of that partnership. But what about approach? What is, is the approach that you find personally for Brad to work best when it comes to how somebody interacts with you as a business partner?

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Are you talking about HR or, or just more general?

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yeah, it could be just general. I, I think it would, it would extrapolate to hr, but just generally like when, when people are trying to work with you, what do you appreciate in terms of approach? 

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Well, I, I appreciate [00:20:00] collaboration, so I hope to our partners realize. This is maybe more on the client side, but I pride myself and my team, we, we try and be business-minded. We try and be pragmatic in our approach to providing advice. And I hope our business partners realize that meaning the advice or the guidance that we give you know, I hope they, they, they, they understand when we, when we provide that, that we are being business-minded.

I mean, sometimes, legal or compliance functions, they, they have a, a reputation for saying no. And, and I, I like to think our, our group doesn't do that. We, we try and find solutions and I hope our business partners recognize that. And so I, I, I just, I, I say that because, you know, sometimes, if, if people, if people recognize upfront that you're, you're, you are trying to be solution oriented it, it helps versus someone thinking, no, you're just gonna throw up barriers. I don't, I don't know if that makes sense.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Oh, absolutely. What I'm getting is that the [00:21:00] way you like to partner with others is that collaborative business-minded solution-oriented kind of approach. And so it would make sense that you would expect that from others trying to partner with you, right? Like, don't tell me what to do. Engage with me about what would make sense and help

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Accept the advice. Accept the advice that I, that I give you, knowing that it is, I'm trying to find a solution for you. You versus me just saying no. If that makes sense. Like, if versus questioning me or challenging me on the advice that I'm, that I'm, that I'm giving because you feel it's too conservative.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Right. Okay. So if we were to flip that and, and I was, like, we're gonna go back a decade and I'm your HR business partner again, it sounds like what you'd be looking for from me is, is is for me to offer advice in a way that's solution oriented and isn't like about saying no.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Exactly. Yes.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Got it. Yeah.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: think, I think that's the way we operate and that's the way I'd like our business partners like HR to operate as well.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: yeah. [00:22:00] Yeah. I agree. So, so for listeners, I think this is so critical, right? Because, you know, I've brought this up on the show before, that we can get so married to our great ideas and the way we think something should be and, and you know, sort of in that achiever mindset, just wanna sort of like, like, come on, we gotta do it.

The whatever, the what is, and. It's important to slow down and remember that we've gotta engage and involve stakeholders in, how does this look for you and your team? We've gotta be flexible within the framework of whatever it is that we're, we're being asked to, to implement or execute upon. So, yeah, I think that's a really important point, Brad.

So, you know, if you think about. Overall with recruitment. I know this has been something that you and I have talked about over the years. It's, it's tough, right? 'cause for you, it's a smaller, smallish team and you're looking for people that have, you know, are strong lawyers and ideally have an industry experience.

That's been quite important. And when you have turnovers, one does when [00:23:00] you're in one place for 22 years, right? Like, it, it's gonna happen. It can be really tricky. What's, what have you learned through. Through turnover, through needing to, to fill in gaps When it comes to, you know, recruitment and talent acquisition, what's your biggest lesson?

I.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Well, a couple things. I mean, last year we lost a lawyer who'd been with us for a few years and, and a, and a legal analyst who'd been with us for, for many years. And you know, it was difficult to, to fill those spots and I think, but interestingly, I think the individuals we hired both.

For both positions. They came to us via referral, via networking. So, I mean, again it may, may, this may may sound trite, but I mean, it's, it's important obviously just not to rely on, on, you know, the resumes that might come in through your posting on indeed or LinkedIn or, or COPIs, wherever you're posting.

But but it's also to, to, to be networking with your industry peers. We ended up having [00:24:00] two great individuals join our team. Both came via referrals. So, you know, that's one lesson. I think too, another lesson is what, in our particular business, the, the area of law we practice is pretty specialized.

And it's difficult to or more difficult, I should say, to find someone with the requisite experience. And so sometimes you have to be willing to kind of broaden your horizons a bit in terms of think a bit outside the box in terms of finding someone who you know, may not have the.

Experience that you're looking for, but you know, who, who you think nonetheless has great skills and could grow into that role. So, and, and I think we've, we've been successful. If you look at some of the individuals we've hired over the years in terms of, we find, we found some, you know, great talent.

Some, some people who might not have fit the bill in terms of what our original. Ask was, or, or what we were recruiting for. [00:25:00] But you know, we've, we've, nonetheless, they've, they've come on board and they've, they've been, they've been great for us. So it, it's, I think it's, it's kind of being thinking outside the box in terms of who, who might be best to fill, fill the role.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Yes. And it's such a progressive, refreshing take from a business leader outside HR because you know, often. Having led talent acquisition several times, you're in a position from hiring managers. They're like, I, I'm, they don't want to compromise on the experience that they think they need, right.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: have, we've had by necessity, like we, we, you know, sometimes you just can't find like, you know. You, you can review a hundred resumes and if they the individuals don't have the, the, the experience you're needing, you're, you, you, you have to look, you have to kind of expand your, your horizons.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Right. Well, and as you were saying, put, you know, come at it a different way. Like, okay, they might not have all the, the experience right. That we thought we. Couldn't compromise on, but they have skills, great skills and they can grow into the role. And that takes [00:26:00] intention and preparation and time on your end for sure.

And yet it could mean you get somebody hired a lot sooner and you're not hitting your head against the recruitment brick wall. 'cause nobody likes doing that. I hear you. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This has been so, so helpful and insightful for me and for listeners just to understand, you know, what's kind of on your mind and what, what you're looking for, what works when it comes to partnering inside an organization.

And yeah. I just wanna thank you so much for your time.

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate2: Well, thank you for having me, Lisa. I enjoyed it. It's great catching up with you and chatting. And I'm glad we finally were able to make this

Brad Beutenmiller GMT20240206-181103_Recording_separate1: Me too. Me too. I'm so glad. Thank you very much, Brad.

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