Loving Metrics with Nancy Tavares

“When you aren’t bringing in direct revenue…you need to make that connection between what it is you do do and how you help enable the business to meet goals…and how HR functions link into that.”
-Nancy Tavares

HR and L&D are not typically revenue generators. AND they had huge value to organizations, as you and I both know well.  Today’s guest beautifully articulates the power of metrics and how to use them effectively to make decisions and build trust with stakeholders.

My guest is Nancy Tavares. Nancy joined Paladin in September 2021. Paladin Security is a renowned security provider across Canada and Nancy is currently the Senior Director of People and Culture. Her role oversees all aspects of HR, which is vast and complex in Paladin’s service-based business, and includes a specific emphasis on strategic talent acquisition and proactive labour relations management.

Nancy’s professional journey began in the fitness industry after graduating from the School of Toronto Dance Theater. From there Nancy developed and progressed into management and operational roles which led her to return to school as a mature student while continuing her professional career. She obtained a diploma in human resources and HR designations: CHRP and CHRL

A lifelong learner, Nancy's commitment to growth and expertise motivates her to constantly pursue further education. She has earned both a psychology degree and a master's degree in human resources management from York University while working full-time. Nancy’s interesting educational background has propelled her career, advancing her into leadership positions in various industries, including fitness, property management, asset management, print and security.

In addition to her responsibilities at Paladin Security, Nancy is a continuing education instructor at George Brown College, in human resources management. She is a sought-after international speaker on HR-related topics, having presented at numerous conferences in the United States and Canada on subjects including: employee engagement, HR metrics, execution, change and performance.  

Nancy's professional focus is bridging the gap between best practice research and practical implementation in the organization.

In this episode of Talent Management Truths, you’ll discover:

• The real power of metrics
• The case for treating recruitment like a sales team in terms of metrics and KPIs
• An example of lead and lag measures

Links

• Nancy Tavares on Linkedin

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Transcript

LM Ep 123

 [00:00:00] HR and L and D are not typically revenue generators, and they have huge value to organizations as you and I both know well. Today's guest beautifully articulates the power of metrics and how to use them [00:01:00] effectively to make decisions and build trust with stakeholders. My guest is Nancy Tavares. Nancy is currently Senior Director of People and Culture at Paladin Security, a renowned security provider across Canada.

Her professional journey began in the fitness industry after graduating from the School of Toronto Dance Theater. From there, Nancy developed and progressed into management and operational roles, which led her to return to school as a mature student while continuing her professional career. Nancy is also a continuing education instructor at George Brown College in Human Resources Management.

She's presented at numerous conferences across the US and Canada. In today's episode of Talent Management Truths, you'll discover the real power of metrics, the case for treating recruitment like a sales team in terms of metrics and KPIs, and an example of lead and leg measures. Thanks so much for listening. Hello and welcome back to Talent Management Truths. I'm [00:02:00] your host, Lisa Mitchell, and today I'm joined by Nancy Tavares. Nancy is the Senior Director of People and Culture at Paladin Security in Toronto. Great to have you on the show, Nancy.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Thanks for having me, Lisa. I've been listening for a while to your podcast, so I'm excited to join you.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Oh, that's great to hear. Thank you. Spread the word. We want more people to find it, so I really appreciate the support very much. So let's kick off by you know, hearing a little bit about your career path and your, your journey to date.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: So for myself you know, I was, you know, I consider myself a bit of a later bloomer into the, the HR space. So, you know, after school, I, was really into fitness, got into the fitness side, started working in an operational capacity, and then sort of fell into the HR side where, you know, I was asked, you know, you're doing a great job at these general manager duties, you know, can you help to train some other people in this role, in this function?

So I said, absolutely. Started to transition into that role and then thought that I really helped. I really [00:03:00] enjoyed and really liked that that role of helping people start out in their, their new position, especially having done the, the role myself and I thought, oh, I think this is the space where I wanna grow my career in.

So, I went back to school to do a human resources diploma and get my designation and so on and so forth. And then, you know, definitely consider myself a lifelong learner. Not too long ago, completed a Master's in in Human Resources management. And then from there increased my scope in human resources from training and development function into a broader scope where I am now at PAL in Securities overseeing more areas of human resources.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Amazing. I, I love the zigs and zags that, you know, people talk about in their careers, you know, from fitness. So were you a fitness instructor and then you were running gyms or, or,

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: So I was a

fitness instructor and then I was you know, a, a general manager and then, you know, went into that training and development from there.[00:04:00] 

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: That's wonderful. Okay, so, so you go back to school. Congratulations on the Master's. That's a really wonderful accomplishment to be proud of. So tell us a little bit about, you know, your team and, and, and the different pillars that you're responsible for at Paladin.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Thanks so much. So was really excited about the opportunity at Paladin. It was a, a new position for, for the region, which is something I find I, I like, tend to gravitate towards is new positions, you know, new, new positions to the organization. Something where I get to do a build. I find that. Really exciting.

So it was a new position for that particular region. And, you know, when I assessed things out, talent acquisition was a really big focus as well as the labor relations component because you know, we operate in a unionized and non-unionized environment. And from there I sort of did, started to do my assessment.

So I do find. You know, my time in learning and development where I've been able to kind of build out those functions in the past really serve me now because I [00:05:00] almost look at everything with that, a needs assessment to it now. Right. So, you know, taking a look at the department I really wanted to work to carve out the different.

Areas to expand, you know, the scope and the brand of the department within the organization in the region. So ultimately how I, I saw carving out was talent acquisition, labor relations employee engagement or employee care component, and HR operations, which I worked, you know, still working diligently towards kind of rebranding that from an administrative function to, you know, a truly critical operational part of human resources.

So. Rebranding that into HR operations focus. And then lastly, just recently in this fiscal year, adding in the talent management framework and looking at things like, performance reviews and nine box and, and those components. So really kind of branding it into these five pillars that fall under people and culture.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Okay. And so you [00:06:00] lead HR and those pillars regionally in, in the greater Toronto area and 

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: So I oversee the Eastern Canada

portfolio. Yeah. So I've got some regional leaders and department leaders and then they've got teams as well that roll up into them. So the Eastern Canada, the four provinces?

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Okay. Okay. And then Paladin, so Paladin does security and I'm pretty sure I've seen them at the airport.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Yes.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Are they at Pearson International And, and in healthcare,

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: In healthcare. Yeah. You

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: some hospitals and so on.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Absolutely. So, pilot and security. So we offer security services to various businesses of sorts. So we've got, you know, several different verticals that we work with. And you're right, healthcare is one of our, our biggest focuses. So we support a number of healthcare organizations in the city as well as aviation, campus security retail security, so on and so forth.

So that's the [00:07:00] business we are in.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Entered campus security. Oh my. God, I remember back when I went to university and, and the campus security was more like one guy and then there were students you could call late at night to walk you home. And we've been doing tours of universities the last year 'cause my son's gonna be 

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Oh, fun. 

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: And so it sounds like it's much more beefed up and, and professional. Yeah. And they're bringing in the big the, the big names like Paladin. So that's, that's great. Beautiful to hear. Okay, well let's dig in a little bit around sort of, some really interesting things that you and I have been talking about off screen and back when we first met, which was you've got this real I think gift and passion for how you use data.

To make decisions, to manage expectations of stakeholders and so on. So I thought we could kind of talk a little bit about that. So, why, why do you love metrics and data so much? 

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: So I think it's important to essentially establish that business case, right? For anything that you're gonna, you're gonna have [00:08:00] an ask for, you know, back to the business especially you know, in, in learning. Development, you may not be bringing in direct revenue, although I think there's potential to do that.

You know, oftentimes aren't bringing in direct revenue. You know, really need to make that connection between what it is that you do do and how you help enable the business to be able to kind of meet those, meet those goals, right? So having a real clear understanding of, you know, how does the business make money?

How does the business lose money? And then how do our, our HR functions. Link into that. So, one of the really exciting things that I found with Paladin was I joined, when I joined, was I thought there was a tremendous, massive opportunity to really demonstrate how people and culture can help contribute to that, right?

So. You know, talent acquisition is one of the most critical functions of our business. You know, we need to have the appropriate amount of people to, you know, meet the contract needs and also in order to grow the business. Right? So, very direct link [00:09:00] there in terms of, you know, potential for, for growth and how people and culture team can help support that.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Absolutely. So, you know, something that you had shared with me was well there's a couple things related to the talent acquisition piece, but you know, one of them was how you. Use data to, to manage expectations with stakeholders, right? That, you know, it's easy for people in the absence of information or just to, to sort of make assumptions and so on.

And so do you have an example of how you, you've used data to manage those expectations around how long it takes to hire large group or an individual for that matter?

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Yeah, absolutely. Two examples are really sort of jumping out at me when you asked that question. And I think the, the first example I wanna touch on is early on when, when joining the organization, I took a real close look at what are the individuals that we have, the roles and responsibilities, and how are those roles and responses.

Responsibility set up to help us achieve these goals, right. To support the business. Right. So, you know, when I took a look at that [00:10:00] as a snapshot we have kind of these best practices in our, our back pocket, right? Which we always need to massage to any particular situation. So it's having that balance of, of the theory in the application piece, right?

And how to be flexible within those frameworks to make it, to make it work. And one of the observations that I had was that, you know, talent acquisition was, really important need and focus. Yet when I looked at the, the team and the team structure there was you know, some more broad focused roles and I thought we really needed to, get a bit more of a specialist focus on this talent acquisition component and, and really essentially almost treat it like, like a sales, like a, how you would treat a sales team, right?

In terms of, introducing metrics, KPIs, you know, how many hires, interviews, and so on, needed to be done on a week as a team, breaking it down to a daily goal to help us achieve, achieve those targets. So that was a big. shift in terms of, you know, how, how we were operating [00:11:00] on a, on a day to day sort of, we, we talked about kind of moving away from a, a post and prey mentality to kind of having that, that strategy, that plan, knowing what we need to do on a daily basis to help us hit those goals.

And a part of what that meant was. Taking these best practices and knowing how many employees we have in particular regions, and how many HR folks we would need to support that number of employees. And doing the math that way and breaking out and saying, you know, this is the current state. This is, you know, the, the volume of employees and the number of support functions.

And you know, based on these best practices, based on these, these metrics and these recommendations. We're either over or under in that number, right? And how, how sort of can we reallocate or redistribute some of those responsibilities to help us meet our goals? So, by providing to my stakeholders, you know, here's some articles, there's some readings.

I'm not just, I promise you I'm not just making this up right as my, my wishlist. Here's, [00:12:00] here's some, some other evidence. That's sort of supporting this sort of a framework and this sort of a, a structure in order for us to hit our goals and, you know, here's my recommendations. And then, then, you know, based on the business, you know, operating in slim margins, we may not get to exactly, you know, a best practice, which, you know, in some readings you'll read, you know.

Every 80 to a hundred employees to one HR professional. That's, that's, that's not a realistic metric for our business. Okay. Well then what can we agree to that's a reasonable kind of meet you in the middle of, here's where we are now, here's what we're saying is best practice. Can we meet in the middle and improve our output as a team?

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Yeah, so really involved. Them and here's, here's what we know is best practice. Here's the situation here. Here's what we're wanting to do. Knowing that, you know, we can't do the full leap, you know, what's kind of a step in the right direction that we can all agree to. I love that question. What can we all agree to?

Right? It's an important [00:13:00] group. Can you agree to something? So that's a great way to. Engage stakeholders. The other thing too that I wanted to pick up in, in there was just, when you were talking about treating talent acquisition, kinda like sales and, and I think that's so important. I used to support sales and I do sales in my business.

And so, you know, business development and, we used to talk about years ago the number of dials, you know, if you think. Business development, the number of dials to get, the number of actual, you know, get past this number of gatekeepers to get to the decision maker. And then how many actual conversations did you have?

And then out of those, how many actually went on to further discovery? And how many of those went on to close? So it's this whole, you know, you're pushing things through the funnel, right? And. You need to have a certain material number, early stages to get to what you want. You think about talent acquisition.

If you're trying to hire one person and it's in a particular domain that could be highly specialized based on previous, you know, hires and other information that might be widely available. So how many. Candidates do you need to [00:14:00] apply? And then how many screens do you need to do based on that? How many of those need to get to interview stage with ta?

How many of those need to get to hiring manager stage from there, you know, to get a short list of two or three and to make an offer. So I think that's a really great metaphor or analogy, the sales piece. Love it.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Yeah, and we did an, an exercise exactly like what you're describing with the team, kind of going through the funnel, going through the steps, and, wanted them to, you know, ask them, okay, based on, based on the funnel now, do we have enough? Right? At the top of the funnel, do we have enough to kind of get to where we need to be?

And the answer was no. Right? So that essentially really helped for them to understand the why we wanted to add some things to posting for the jobs, but what other things do we have to add to, to our weekly, monthly, daily strategy in order to get more people applying, right? Because when you do the math, you're short.[00:15:00] 

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Well, the other thing too is, is that you made me think of there is that when you are clear on the math, like the numbers that you need, the sheer numbers you need to, to move through to that end outcome, it, it helps teams. Keep their eye on the ball and on the activity so you're not so focused and anxious about the outcome.

Right? Like, like, they're not, they're not getting distracted by, oh my God, like, how am I ever gonna get this one filled? It's more on doing the things that will eventually get it filled.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: A hundred percent. And you're, you're making me think of another thing that I, that I really like to focus on with the team as well as with my stakeholders, because it's all about controlling the information and making sure you're speaking the right language to the right audience, right?

So one of the thing that I found was in, I believe it's Franklin Covey does a really good job talking about like, lead and leg measures, right? So, you know, those lead measures are, you know, what you're talking about in terms of the activity that needs to happen in order to get the end result and then the lag measures.

So some of the [00:16:00] conversations that I've had with, with stakeholders are let me worry about the lead measures. Let me worry about the activity. And then, you know, what I want you to focus on is, is those lag measures, those end results, right? So, don't be too worried if we're not doing the number of screens that you want because there's probably a reason for that, right?

That within this, this expertise in this, the, the specialists that we have in this area, they're aware of that you come and talk to me when we're not hitting those numbers for the lag measures for the end result, then I'll work back and figure out what, what the issue is. That that's what I perceive my, my role to be in that space.

And I will present to you right in the metrics, the lag measures. Right. The end result,

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Yeah. That's really, really helpful actually, to have you walk us through that. I, I love that. And, and again, it's a, it's a excellent example of managing stakeholder expectations, right. And contracting and involving contracting with them. Involving them in how we're gonna work together. yeah, [00:17:00] I really appreciate that.

So, okay, let's, let's keep going like a, a little, there's, there's a bunch of other things here that I think it's important to surface, like. you had shared with me back when we first met about having to do a massive hire, like I think it was about 300 people in a short order of time. And I've been there.

I get it. And so, you know, there were a lot of constraints upon you and your team. How did you help leaders understand those constraints?

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Yeah. So, one of the things that I did with my team was working out, okay, you know, we need to set the expectations. We know it's, you know, physically and humanly impossible to hire X amount of people like yesterday, which is always, you know, the ask, when do you need this by yesterday, right?

So, what we essentially did was, you know, worked out a, a calendar and a timeline with all the months based it off the resources that we have, which is, when I say resources that we have, I'm talking about the people that we have, right? How many hires [00:18:00] they can make, you know, within that, within that day, within that frame and whatnot.

And then mapping it out over the months, right? So sort of to get out of this deficit, this is how much long it's gonna take based on the math. We have X amount of people, they can hire X amount of people maximum, right? That means that, you know, they're doing nothing else. It's gonna take X amount of months, right?

I think it was looking at something like six months or something like this, right? And then ask the stakeholder, does this work for you? Well, no, this doesn't really work for me, right? Well, this is what we're working with. So you know, if this doesn't work with you. For you, then we need to come up with, with another plan.

And that's when you start to leverage your negotiation skills, right? So if you know, you understand the math, you understand the capabilities within, you know, a day, a month, a week, right? And, and you're agreeing Yes, the this is what's, humanly possible and that doesn't meet the business needs, then something else has to change, right?

And I, I believe that that's. [00:19:00] On us to put those, those, those ideas, those recommendations forward. So ideas, you know, hire more people you know, the ideas, you know, can something else change in our hiring requirements to open the pool of candidates more? Yes, no, maybe like, whatever, whatever, like you start to offer up, you know, some of, some of these components.

And so what we ended up. Landing on was and you know, kind of put together a proposal deck, you know, with the team on this is, you know, let's try, you know, I know. We're, we're not prepared to hire on more regular positions, right? Because productivity is always a factor. So hiring more people doesn't, hiring more people for the, the TA team doesn't always result in more hires, right?

Because there's a, a, a productivity efficiency piece that's in there, right? In fact. Depending on how productive, efficient, and and strong the performers are. You, you could have less people and hire more people, right? So all these factors are sort of coming into play. So, there's an initial proposal to hire on interns [00:20:00] just for one semester.

So. And let's see how this helps the team, right? So we could, we could sort of get that agreed to, it was a, a short-term pilot, you know, understanding that it may work or it may not work. And then, you know, what were the goals, you know, if we're moving forward with this plan, what are, what are the. The goals of bringing on these roles.

Right. And sort of, does that help you get to where you wanna be or kind of get you outta the deficit that you were in over that period of time to help get you more on track? Right. So, you know, had we not mapped out, here's where we are, here's what can be done month over month, week over week there wasn't a clear understanding of, of where, where the gap was.

Right. We didn't necessarily have. You know, a performance issue, we were in a deficit, right? So in order to sort of get us out of that, something else had to change. But if you don't communicate that right, if you don't say, this is the ma this is the roadmap we're on, right? [00:21:00] Based off of the current state, this is the roadmap we're on.

Right? And there's only only so many levers we can pull within that, right?

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: think that's, that's our job, you know, in this thing is to facilitate conversations. You know, with neutrality, we don't have to come up with all the solutions, but we do have to draw attention to where there's a gap. You know, something that I can remember when I was leading TAs, part of my. Purview.

My last couple roles was, you know, having this, we had it was like a one pager. So for each, each requisition, the recruiter would go through and sort of help an a hiring manager understand, like with actual timing. so 

so time we get the approval, right. Signed off, that can take two to five business days or whatever it was.

So what is the date on that? And then we get it posted. It takes this long, and then we wait for some candidates to come in, and then we've gotta sift through those and get them to you. Well, what we had found was often once we got the initial wack of resumes out [00:22:00] that we had screened. To the hiring manager, then they'd sit on it, right?

So that could really materially change how long it took to get them their new hire. So when we actually knocked out, hey, this stage when it's in your court and again later on for different stages, you know, could take between one and in our experience, 15 business days. So then that really changes the end date, you know, for this whole to have it wrapped up with a bow.

But it was so, it was such a. Neutral fact-based,

professional way to help manage expectations and help them sort of see how they had, you know, a, a piece of this puzzle here. They, they had impact on the overall timing and result.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: exactly.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Yeah. Well now, and something just going back to, you mentioned this intern pilot program that you had done right to help close the gap on this deficit.

Right. We had so many requisitions [00:23:00] open and not enough team members. you had shared with me offline a little bit about how there'd been some confusion over. You know, people sort of saying, oh, but we didn't actually, that we hired these interns, but they didn't really hire anybody and, and there was a reason for that.

Right. That's a great example of if we don't tell people, they'll make up stories, they'll make assumptions. It's not that they're bad people, it's just what we do as humans. So what was actually going on in the background? I, I, I know true that they weren't sitting there doing nothing.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Yeah, a hundred percent. So, as a part of the proposal, we thought, okay, well, you know, these interns, you know, to get us out of this, this the hiring numbers that we had to achieve, they were gonna be making some hires, right? But what we found was the ramp up and the onboarding to get, you know, those new people up to speed.

Well, that, you know, that takes some time. So what we found more efficient, or what ended up sort of happening a bit of a mix organically was you know, the interns ended up helping out with some more [00:24:00] administrative components that the team needed support on. And then, the more seasoned team members doing the recruitment and the connections with the hiring managers and whatnot, they were able to operate a little bit more quickly.

So, when I truly kind of take, took a look at that because, you know, this was some of the feedback that I was hearing. I said, okay, well just a minute here. Let me take a look at that. Right. So, spoke. Directly with the team, what were, some of the things that were happening Got the understanding that, there was a shift, a natural, a bit of a natural shift in responsibilities that took place, which made lo logical sense to me.

But then when I went back to the systems and pulled a quarter over quarter report we did in fact hire nearly, nearly double the people that, that, that had happened during the last quarter.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: But those hire were attributed to the senior permit. Minute folks on the team,

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Yeah. Yeah. So it, it, it was more of the existing permanent folks that were able to be more, more productive and, and do more activity because they had some of that other that other [00:25:00] support.

But when you look at, again, that leg measure, right, that I want my stakeholders focused on. Not the other components. 'cause that's why, you know, we've got the HR team, right? So, looking at focusing on those leg measures, the reality was that there were more hires, right? With, with the additional support.

So but it really took that evidence, it really took that evidence and, you know, it just goes to show you can't kind of make any blanket statements with, without anything to back it up, right? So I think always making sure that you've got. Got some of, some of those facts there can really help to, to build your case.

'cause you can't argue with, with the facts, right? Yeah,

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think if we remember that too, it takes some of the emotion out of it. 'cause it's easy to, you know, when sometimes stakeholders can be pretty hard driving and they can be like, what, what's going on? And like, you know, it's easy to sort of go, oh, well wait a second, you know, and feel a bit.

Defensive and, and it's, it's, remember, get grounded around the facts and the decisions you made and, and [00:26:00] trust that they, that they made sense. So, you know, another piece that I wanted to check in with you on before we kinda start to, to draw to a close here is this piece around how to report in an effective, efficient manner.

Because I think you've got some great ideas to share with listeners about how to, to balance reporting and. Reporting on. Can you speak to that Nancy?

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Yeah, and I think that was probably, I feel like you know, over the years, some of my, my biggest learnings is I do find, you know, we're all human and we all have these, you know, human biases and all the rest, and I find the one that I keep running into frequently as something that needs to be managed is this whole kind of recency.

Sort of effect that we all have, right? So, and, and we talk about this lots in like the performance management process, right? If you're doing an annual performance review process, everybody remembers the, you know, the last two to three months, the most, right? So take [00:27:00] that same principle, that same comp. That same concept implied to your every day, right?

So, I mean, you know, you know, currently in a client service based industry, you know, client satisfaction is usually obviously and importantly like a key component for us, right? So, can be, you know, throughout the year, kind of trucking along, getting some wins, things like that. But every, every now and again, you're gonna run into sort of, a roadblock, right?

And it. Can create a need for some urgency and some action. And you know, all of that is under understandable. But sometimes what I find is with our stakeholders, those kind of critical incidents that come up become the focus, right? So how do you control the narrative so that we're not. Losing perception over all of the contributions that, the people and culture, hr, HR department is making.

Right. So one of the ways that I really try to manage this recency component is through, you know, we have a weekly reporting that's going out. So it's [00:28:00] every week, some of our metrics, right? Some of those, those traditional metrics, you know, how many hires, so many, and so, so on and so forth.

But then what I really strive to do is to layer in some of the hard numbers with some of the soft numbers as well, or quantitative and qualitative components. So, encouraging the regional leaders to include photos. With those weekly reports, right? So when you have multi-site multi-location business it can get very easy to get regionalized or siloed as we like to say, with the, you know, the different within the different regions.

So, you know, really breaking it down, including photos of the work being done from your team, like actual, literal photos is what I'm talking about, right? So you can see, you know, people's faces, you know, doing the different events or doing the site visits and you know, it really. Paints the picture for the stakeholders that, you know, have got so many, we've all got so many things on the go, you know, just to get that end of the week report, see the impact, see the numbers, but then also see the faces behind that [00:29:00] as well, I feel like makes a big difference.

So, you know, managing that that weekly reporting, right, that is very fact-based, laying it in with some of those soft metrics. And then also one of the things that I introduced last year, then I'm shifting into this year, got a few, you know, bumps as it sometimes happens, but a quarterly business review, right?

So like, you know, reporting back to, to my stakeholders saying, these are some of our challenges. These are some of our wins in this quarter. Here's what we're doing about it. And also saying, these are some of the trends. We're seeing in the business, right? So HR has got eyes on, you know, attendant absenteeism.

What are some of the common you know, discipline issues, you know, that we're seeing in the field and then bringing that forward to the business, saying, here's some opportunities. You know, here's our recomme. Can we do some more training on this area? Do our managers need more support? Right. On how to manage their, their frontline staff to help make an impact in, in some of these other [00:30:00] issues that we're seeing.

You know, coming up in some of our reporting and that is that that business partnering piece, right, where you're bringing those things to light and really managing, managing the visibility over those contributions weekly, quarterly

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, listeners, I pro have probably heard me say, you know, you're not, the order taker like that is not l and d, HR OD talent. People are there to do. And yet sometimes, you know, especially in smaller, smaller departments or one person departments, you know, it can feel like you're just taking orders from, from the business.

They're saying, can you. Go do that. And, and it's about saying, oh, wait a second. How am I a strategic partner? How am I part of the bigger picture? Actually, it was funny, I just posted something today. We're we're recording in January, 2024, but I had the best meeting with a client this morning and I just had to share it because.

We, they had had a request for training and it was like, there was this group of people in, in one of, it's, it's a retail kind of scenario. One of the [00:31:00] stores and well, across the stores there was inconsistency in the service product. And so the request came in from ops, which was, can you fix that, fix these people for performance, right?

And it was about the employees and not the leaders and not all this stuff. So, so I'm helping behind the scenes. With this leader and team to help them learn and grow their skills strategically. And so we did a needs assessment, right? So they're going out, they're actually. Worked hard to dig at what's the root cause, what's actually going on.

And in the end, what they found was that there were SOPs in this kind of thing, training manuals, but most stores didn't have access to them or they were out of date, or employees didn't have time or never shown where they were. There were no actual on-the-job training hours available, no funding for it, and there hadn't been.

It was. It was a do or die sink or swim scenario for people. So that's why consistency, right? And then the leaders are like chickens with no heads. So anyways, so in [00:32:00] the end, this was brought forward as part of the overall recommendations and so forth, and they got 700 grand funding in new in-store training for the upcoming, and that is driven solely through the l and d team.

Choosing to position themselves as a value added business partner. So anyways, it just links with the example, you know, the, the portrait you're painting of, and the more you explain that to people, I mean, there's a balance of tooting your own horn and then also providing, you know, salient. Informative facts that help the business make decision, but it, it's such a core part of what we need to do to establish we are your partner and we wanna keep being right.

That you, if you build it, they will come, is what I way I see it.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Yes, exactly. And I think too, you know, with the, like the tooting the own horn thing, right? So sometimes, you know, we might feel self-conscious about like, oh, is this, you know, I'm just, you know, tooting my own horn. But I think you can, you can [00:33:00] balance that if you're focused on the facts again, like the facts or the facts, right?

And also sharing, you know, some of your challenges or some of the things that you're working on can help to balance out the, we only do amazing things, right? Because, you know, we, we, we don't, that may not be as helpful, right. As, as the, the earlier version, but I think you can, you can help to, to balance that.

'cause I can certainly relate to, you know, people being cautious to do that because it may feel like, oh, am I like truing my own horn too much? And it's like, well, you know, you can, how can you balance it? How can you balance it out and kind of again, control that narrative, right? Because you're, you're, it's your brand, right?

Your department brand.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: And I, and I think you know, your point about balance, that's what it's all about. Because I see people typically coming into the extremes. They're, they're too self-promoting or not 

enough doing any of it. I, I love your advice around how to, how to have your traditional metrics and so on, that numbers that do matter and, and be [00:34:00] consistent and regular in communicating them and layering in, you called it.

Layering in sort of the human side of things and using pictures, those, you know, visual portraits, you know, that, that allay fears about recency effect, but really like, sort of, Hey, this is what's going on. Right? And even if people are only scanning the, the words or the numbers, they're seeing it in play, which is really key.

I love it. It's such a great, great idea. Thank you so much, Nancy. This has just been such a pleasure to talk about all things metrics and talent acquisition and, and HR with you today.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate2: Amazing. Thank you so much.

Nancy Tavares GMT20240125-192313_Recording_separate1: My pleasure. [00:35:00]